Dreading tax day? Well, I’ve got more bad news for you. Come April 15th, TiVo Series 3 owners unceremoniously lose access to Amazon Instant. Launched on TiVo way back in 2006 as Amazon Unbox (going HD in 2008), before we called these things “apps”, the video download service has been superseded by a streaming-centric approach that older TiVo hardware is likely incapable of handling (nor would anyone be willing to fund a significant engineering effort on hardware no longer available for purchase). As such, Amazon has begun alerting TiVo Series 3 owners. Presumably, “Series 3” also includes TiVo HD models and should Amazon video still be available to Series 2 DVRs, I expect it’ll similarly become inaccessible in the very near future. So while we may have indeed paid TiVo for “Lifetime Service” there’s no guarantees as to what that might consist of over time.
Hello,
As someone who has used the Amazon application on your TiVo Series 3, we want to let you know the application will no longer be available on your TiVo after April 15, 2015. This means you won’t be able to download videos to your TiVo after this date. You can however continue to watch the movies and TV episodes you purchased and downloaded on your TiVo prior to this date by following the instructions below.
**Important – To keep your downloaded videos:
1. Download all purchased videos you want to save to your TiVo by April 15, 2015. After this date, you won’t be able to download videos from Amazon on your device.
2. To make sure your downloaded videos remain saved to your device, check the “Keep Until” settings for each one. Use your remote to open TiVo Central, then go to your “Now Playing” list. Select a video, open the “Keep Until” option, and choose “Keep Until I Delete” or specify a date.
If you don’t download your purchased videos onto your TiVo Series 3 and check the “Keep Until” date for each, you won’t be able to watch them on your device after April 15, 2015.
You can also stream your purchased movies and TV episodes on hundreds of compatible devices including TiVo Roamio, Smart TVs, game consoles, iOS, Android, and Fire devices. For more information about ways to watch, go to: https://www.amazon.com/
watchnow As a TiVo Series 3 customer, you’re eligible for $100 off a TiVo Roamio sold by Amazon.com so you can stream Amazon Instant Video.
You can redeem this offer on the Amazon website:
1. Go to: https://www.amazon.com/TiVo5
2. Add a qualifying TiVo Roamio device to your Cart and proceed to checkout.
3. On the “Select a Payment Method” page, enter XXXX-XXXXXX-XXXXXX under “Gift Cards & Promotional Codes.”
4. Place your order.You’ll see the promotional credit reflected in your order details. This offer is available until April 30, 2015. See the following link for the full terms and conditions:
https://www.amazon.com/
TiVo5OfferTerms Sincerely,
Customer Service
Amazon.com
(Thanks, DK!)
Windows downloads ceasing too, March 29th:
https://twitter.com/Fyodor32768/status/578244620762611712
Dave, Do you think this basically means Amazon is stopping all downloads, including on Premiere and Roamio TiVos also?
“As a TiVo Series 3 customer, you’re eligible for $100 off a TiVo Roamio sold by Amazon.com so you can stream Amazon Instant Video.”
That’s a genuinely nice way to soften the blow. Top-notch customer service, as always. Makes me continue to feel warm and fuzzy about purchasing film/TV content from Amazon.
—–
I do suppose the change was inevitable.
—–
“that older TiVo hardware is likely incapable of handling (nor would anyone be willing to fund a significant engineering effort on hardware no longer available for purchase”
Even if anyone wanted to fund the engineering effort, it’s just not technically possible, for reals. Even when I turned both my TiVo HD tuners to SD stations to maximize throughput, it still wasn’t enough to download Amazon video in real-time. I’d have to trigger the download 15 – 25 minutes before I started watching a movie…
“Dave, Do you think this basically means Amazon is stopping all downloads, including on Premiere and Roamio TiVos also?”
That’s what I’d pretty strongly think. Otherwise, it doesn’t make any sense to cancel it for S3.
atmusky, I had thought downloads were already off Roamio… if, not, yeah I’d guess downloads are done on anything other than a Fire tablet.
Chucky, probably not exactly a one-to-one comparison given the file encoding, bitrate, etc. But, point taken – TiVo did have some serious networking bottlenecks, mostly hardware-related, not resolved until Premiere/S4 (when MRV was joined by the way more usable, practical MRS).
My guess is that Amazon has pretty good data on how often this is being used, and would not cancel it if it was still a popular way to watch content from Amazon. I stopped using it on my TivoHD the day that I bought my first Roku.
“You can also stream your purchased movies and TV episodes on hundreds of compatible devices including TiVo Roamio, Smart TVs, game consoles, iOS, Android, and Fire devices.”
I know Amazon wants to promote the Fire, but given that it’s still the best-selling OTT box, and the reason I started buying more content from Amazon, you’d think they’d at least mention Roku by name. Non-Apple devices are their friends, whether they recognize it or not…
Dave, Right now I can push (excluding free with Amazon prime videos) videos from the Amazon web site to my Premiere or Roamio.
Perhaps eventually it will go away, but I would presume that they would have said so in this e-mail if that were the case on April 15th and advised S4 and S5 owners to download if they wanted their purchased videos stored locally. And downloaded videos are not off Roamios yet. Just rented and downloaded a new release HD movie on Sunday to my Roamio Pro. You have to initiate it from Amazon.com, not on the Tivo, but it gives you the download option when you purchase and has a drop down of available Tivo’s to push it to. Much better quality and control viewing locally than streamed and all Tivo trick play functions work natively versus the glitchier streaming controls. Hope it stays…
“I stopped using it on my TivoHD the day that I bought my first Roku.”
It took me much longer than a day to fully switch-over, but yeah.
(Downside is that this totally screws folks with very slow internet connections. Only option left is to download video from Apple to a Mac/Windows computer with iTunes, to be played back via Apple TV. I have actually run into many folks online who are forced into that option. I’d pretty much assumed Amazon would keep downloads around just for that niche, since the backend couldn’t be too hard to maintain. But as you suggest, they’ve highly likely run the numbers. That niche is really out there, but I guess it just isn’t enough. Pour out a 40oz for rural Idaho…)
“Perhaps eventually it will go away, but I would presume that they would have said so in this e-mail if that were the case on April 15th and advised S4 and S5 owners to download if they wanted their purchased videos stored locally.”
What you say about their wording makes perfect sense, but it’d be damn odd if they cut it off for both S3 and Windows, while not cutting it off completely. What’s the point? We shall see how it plays out…
(My suspicion is that they didn’t mention the S4 and S5 because those folks have a way to access their library via the streaming app. But again, we shall see.)
This isn’t tivo-specific at all. amazon is retiring the entire local download service. It’s actually a bummer, as amazon unbox was convenient to download movies to watch on a plane.
There must be a couple versions of the Amazon email going around. I received one which also cancelled service on Series 4 Tivo (see below).
I checked with Tivo support who said that was incorrect. And I checked with Amazon support who said it was correct – Series 4 being discontinued. Ouch.
Note that the $100 off Romio is not offered to S4 customers…
from amazon “If you have a TiVo Premiere (Series 4) device:
The Amazon application will no longer allow downloads onto your TiVo after April 15, 2015. This means you won’t be able to download videos to your TiVo after this date. You can however continue to watch the movies and TV episodes you purchased and downloaded on your TiVo prior to this date by following the instructions below.
Important – To keep your downloaded videos:
1. Download all purchased videos you want to save to your TiVo by April 15, 2015. After this date, you won’t be able to download videos from Amazon on your device.
2. To make sure your downloaded videos remain saved to your device, check the “Keep Until” settings for each one. Use your remote to open TiVo Central, then go to your “Now Playing” list. Select a video, open the “Keep Until” option, and choose “Keep Until I Delete” or specify a date.
If you don’t download your purchased videos onto your TiVo and check the “Keep Until” date for each, you won’t be able to watch them on your device after April 15, 2015.
You can also stream your purchased movies and TV episodes on hundreds of compatible devices including TiVo Roamio, Smart TVs, game consoles, iOS, Android, and Fire devices. For more information about ways to watch, go to: “
“Note that the $100 off Romio is not offered to S4 customers…”
Makes sense.
Yes, the S3 message also includes TivoHD—I got my email this afternoon.
It was nice to be able to buy a show from Amazon and have it download to the Tivo during the day when residential bandwidth is flowing, and then watch in the evening without having to worry about streaming stuttering. (Which is less of an issue now than a few years ago, but still occasionally a thing.) The only thing I’ve used this for recently has been Doctor Who, so we could watch an episode without it being broken up by commercials by BBC America.
But yeah, I guess I’ll be buying from Apple/iTunes now, as I can still download a local copy via that method.
“But yeah, I guess I’ll be buying from Apple/iTunes now, as I can still download a local copy via that method.”
That’s why this is all weird. Even if the niche is small, the last thing you’d figure that Amazon would want to do is force folks into the Apple ecosystem.
The only way I can make sense of it is that, for all intensive purposes, the only folks still using Amazon downloads were TiVo and WMC customers. So, it’s a small niche of a small niche, equalling a tiny niche. The alternative would be for Amazon to make a simple Mac/Windows computer app that just could handle downloads and playback via Fire TV, but that would require new investment for just a shrinking niche.
(And while Apple indeed remains the option for folks in rural Idaho, I wouldn’t be surprised to see iTunes downloads go away at some point in the mid-term future, given Cupertino’s direction and priorities.)
Whoops. Too much bolding. Careless with my tags. Apologies to your eyes.
I closed the tag after “only” – hopefully that was where you wanted it.
Back in the Series 2 days, Amazon’s Unbox allowed me to drop my cable subscription back to “broadcast only” and save $60/month.
I then bought whatever cable shows I wanted on a per-episode basis, downloaded over a $10/month, 768KBps DSL connection.
Some of us older retired folks don’t want to have to spend good money to buy a Roamio when our TiVo Series 3 HD with lifetime service and a 1TB hard drive is working just fine. We liked to download the Instant video movies from Amazon because they were paid for individually with no monthly fee. We’ve got way too many monthly bills already. I got on online chat with Amazon today and filed a rather scathing complaint which they promised to forward to top digital management….but I’m not holding my breath for them to do a turnaround on scrapping a lot of the TiVo service. I told them they were going to force me to switch to Netflix.
“I got on online chat with Amazon today and filed a rather scathing complaint which they promised to forward to top digital management….but I’m not holding my breath for them to do a turnaround on scrapping a lot of the TiVo service.”
Ask for a $100 credit for a Roku…
Thanks for the suggestion about Roku Chucky. I’m exploring that possibility. I had not heard of Roku before but it looks like it might be promising.
“I had not heard of Roku before but it looks like it might be promising.”
Yeah. For OTT, Roku is the way to go.
And the thing I love about Amazon customer service, is that they’ve never failed to do the right thing by me, if I’ve been willing to press them about an issue. Go to email customer service, and demand the $100 credit be placed to a Roku instead of a Premiere, explaining your particular situation. If you press them, they should do the right thing. It’s why I’m a loyal customer of theirs.
“Launched on TiVo way back in 2006 as Amazon Unbox (going HD in 2008), before we called these things “apps”
Yup. Back then, instead of calling them “apps”, we used to call them “meerkats”…
I did just what you suggested Chucky and emailed Customer Service at Amazon. I laid out my case and requested a credit of $90 toward the Roku 3 I ordered from them today instead of applying the $100 credit toward a TiVo Roamio. The Roku unit came to $90.14 with tax. I’ll post an update of Amazon’s response when I receive it and will continue to pursue the credit if their initial response is negative.
Perhaps some other readers will want to try the same strategy?
Ed,
So let me get this straight. You are upset that Amazon is going to a streaming model only, so you threaten them if they don’t keep allowing downloads then you are going to go to Netflix, a streaming only service?
“So let me get this straight. You are upset that Amazon is going to a streaming model only, so you threaten them if they don’t keep allowing downloads then you are going to go to Netflix, a streaming only service?”
I fully agree that there is some logical inconsistency in that particular argument. But initial reactions to a perceived betrayal often display some logical inconsistency.
However, let’s not lose sight of the bigger picture. Amazon correctly recognizes that they are marooning folks who have depended on their promised services on the S3. And Amazon is trying to do the right thing by the folks they are marooning, who have counted on them and perhaps bought a library of their content, by offering a $100 credit on a Roamio, which is the kind of customer service that makes me love Amazon. But for Ed’s particular situation, a Roamio is not the right solution, so he’s willing to take that same credit for a Roku instead. Assuming Amazon does the right thing here, it’s win-win, all around.
(Given Amazon’s willingness to help subsidize a streaming solution, and assuming they’ll accommodate someone like Ed’s reasonable request, the only folks who have a right to genuinely be pissed off here are those who bought Amazon video rights based on what TiVo downloads could do for them, and don’t have a fast enough internet connection to do real-time streaming no matter what hardware they have. Those folks are SOL, and were I one of them, I’d hassle Amazon to get some kind of partial refund of what I’d paid for the video rights. A one-time download is not the same as permanently accessible rights.)
Interesting remark from Dave about S3’s most likely not being able to handle the streaming is quite likely. I recall that the reason Dish is offering Netflix on its Hopper with Sling and not the original Hopper is that the Hopper with Sling has the chip that can handle Netflix streaming. This makes sense as the HWS chip is more advanced has to perform trans coding, etc. that the original Hopper does not.
I have to say, that as an S3 648 owner, it is really sad seeing such a FINE device suffering the death of a thousand cuts. 648’s (and other S3’s) are SOLID DVR’s that do the core with great reliability and a classic UI that is more than sufficient, especially for those who are not looking for the new bells and whistles nor the dreaded Discovery Bar. My word, what a JOY it is to interact with my S3’s without the cluttered interface that is S4 and S5. Look, I do recommend the latest TiVo Roamio line for all its innovations such number of tuners, Mini and Streaming options, etc. But the S3’s are ROBUST at what they do (core DVR functions–don’t we all really prefer a Roku for over top) and it pains to see such perfectly GREAT DVR’s bleed to death. True, S3’s make great OTA DVR’s, but even for that, one is better off with the higher tuner counts on Roamios.
Lastly, can we ever part with the 648’s extremely USEFULL and classy OLED front display? Not I. I shall mourn the day the S3’s are given the coup de gras by TiVo. :).
Forgive this doddering oldster’s confusion. I have a TivoHD, and got the email today.
Now, the wording of the email says (heck, why not, I’ll quote it)
“As someone who has used the Amazon application on your Tivo series 3, we want to let you know the application will no longer be available [etc]”
Okay. There’s two ways I download purchased movies to my Tivo.
a) While on my tivo, I browse through the ‘video on demand’ selections under amazon, find something i like, select it, enter my passcode, and make the purchase. The video then downloads to my machine.
b) While on my computer, I browse around amazon’s instant video selections, find something I want to rent or buy, do so, then click the ‘download to your compatible device’ selection to send it to the Tivo.
Does this change kill off *both* options? Or are they just eliminating the whole ‘hook’ into tv to browse and rent/buy while in the tivo interface?
Also – while writing this – I ran across another rather disturbing little tidbit in their ‘help’ section about downloaded videos:
That kind of screws me, with all the movies and series i’ve purchased.
I sure do hope I did my html tagging right.
But don’t I still have to buy the $130 TiVo stream device to use with this Roamio? So total cost is really $175 not just $45 with this promo discount from Amazon, right? Or am I wrong? No one else seems to be asking about this…
Well, note that Netflix can stream to the Series 3, unlike the Series 2. No need to buy new equipment if switching to Netflx.
AJ: You do not need the stream add on device to access streaming service (Netflix, Hulu+, Amazon, Vudu, Yahoo, etc.). The streaming device is for streaming content from your Roamio to an android or iOS device.
“Does this change kill off *both* options? Or are they just eliminating the whole ‘hook’ into tv to browse and rent/buy while in the tivo interface?”
Yup. Kills off both options. No more downloads. Period.
“You can have a maximum of 25 Prime Instant Video titles downloaded at any one time to all of the devices registered to your Amazon account. That kind of screws me, with all the movies and series i’ve purchased.”
Key word you’re missing there is “Prime”, which is different than purchased video. So from that wording, at least, there is no reason you can’t download more than 25 of your purchased videos to your TiVo over the next month.
However, of course, that’ll take up a big chunk of your hard drive storage. If you’ve got a fast enough internet connection, you should seriously investigate a way to access your purchased Amazon library through streaming, via a Roku or Roamio or whatever. If you don’t have a fast enough internet connection to handle streaming, you should pursue trying to get some kind of partial refund on your library purchases from Amazon.
Thanks for the reply Chucky. My internet connection is just barely is enough – I have a 6mbps symmetric connection. When I download videos, they are in stunning, gorgeous, hi-def. Any time I’ve tried streaming – I get this level of detail somewhere between SD and HD.
Yes, I can afford to get a (grumble grumble) cable connection, but I run a server at home and have a /28 netblock, so basically I’ll have to have two internet connections. Not cheap. So ultimately amazon will be costing me a lot of money with this change, no matter how i slice it.
“Yes, I can afford to get a (grumble grumble) cable connection, but I run a server at home and have a /28 netblock, so basically I’ll have to have two internet connections.”
I assume you are knowledgable enough about this stuff to be sure there is no way to do clever routing to avoid having to have two internet connections. Cuz otherwise, clever routing would be my suggestion.
“So ultimately amazon will be costing me a lot of money with this change, no matter how i slice it.”
Given that, with this decision, Amazon is abandoning the slow internet video market to Apple, going forward, your cheaper option would be to buy an Apple TV, and download video from Apple to a Mac/Windows computer with iTunes.
However, I’m loathe to recommend the Apple ecosystem for content in general, and there is no guarantee Apple won’t similarly abandon the slow internet video market in the future…
I just received my reply from Amazon regarding my request for a $90 credit on the purchase of a Roku instead of $100 for a TiVo Roamio.
Amazon’s response was: “As explained to you earlier regarding this offer, please understand that this credit is automatically added to your account only for the purchase of TiVo Roamio device using the unique promo claim code emailed to you. We regret that it isn’t possible to extend this offer manually for purchase of other devices.”
Sort of wonder what their response would be for a credit on an Amazon Fire TV unit instead?
What the heck was the criteria for this deal? I have had my series 3 since 2007 and been using amazon’s service since 2008. I get this back from amazon:
“The promotion you described was offered by invitation only to a limited group of customers, and is valid only for the email addresses to which it was sent. We regret that we cannot extend this offer to other customers.”
Not Happy…
I don’t like this discontinuation and I generally prefer to download Amazon video onto my Tivo series 3 for playback. The disconnection from the bandwidth usage while viewing is nice, and the Tivo control on the playback is the best I’ve seen, including the Tivo peanut remote.
That said, I had already purchased an Amazon Fire tv stick for $19 back when they had it on sale at first offer. I only have a 6mb internet connection with a sub 1mb upload (ADSL). I can’t stream on my Tivo except for Netflix. That always got me HD resolution and so does the fire stick. The current $40 price for the Fire TV stick is a low investment. It might be able to stream HD even with a 3mb connection, and certainly can with my 6mb. It’s optimized for use with the Amazon service but also can do Netflix.
I also tired Google Chromecast and by comparison that sucked. It’s very problematic to get it to work consistently with the browser on the PC to move the screen to the TV.
I guess this also gets Amazon off the hook for the lack of closed captioning on downloaded videos.
I’ve got a Roamio, a Premiere and a Series 3. I much prefer downloading vs clunky controls and ISP (Comcast) issues with streaming. And I have plenty of Amazon and other streaming capabilities across many devices. I’ve never had cable or sat and do a ton of business with Amazon just so I can download.
So they have this feedback form where you can rate their service. I rated it “I love it” then left this comment:
That will change to “I Hate It” after 4/14/15. I have been downloading movies and tv shows to my TiVos since 2008. I much prefer local control of playback vs clunky controls and ISP issues with streaming. I don’t have cable or sat. tv (never did, never will) and I’ve been downloading instead way before it was trendy to cut the cable. And yes, I have streaming TiVos. Don’t care for streaming. Downloading is way better.
Your decision to discontinue downloads to TiVos is a bad one. Now there is simply no reason to buy tv shows and buy or rent movies from you instead of Vudu.
In fact, from now on, Amazon will be my last choice and Vudu my first. That means the next seasons of Walking Dead, Americans, 12 Monkeys, The Strain, The Last Ship, Falling Skies, Orphan Black, Continuum, Homeland–to name a few–at $3/episode all from Vudu. Plus all the movies I rent and buy. I’ll only use Amazon when there’s no other choice.
And I won’t stop there. One guy, who cares? I intend to take this boycott as viral as possible, especially to every TiVo forum I know and other places. Maybe if you loose 100K or more TiVo users Amazon will pay attention.
It was nice doing business with you. See you on Vudu.
If you change your policy and reinstitute TiVo downloads, let me know.
Maybe if they hear from enough of us–or see a dip in their revenue “stream”– they’ll at least reconsider the issue.
I haven’t received any such email notification and code from Amazon. I have an S3 and an HD, but it’s been awhile (years) since I last downloaded an Amazon video to either device. Should I expect to also receive the notification and code? Should I expect to receive two such email offers?
Chucky sayeth:
“I assume you are knowledgable enough about this stuff to be sure there is no way to do clever routing to avoid having to have two internet connections. Cuz otherwise, clever routing would be my suggestion.”
Sorry, I wasn’t clear in that answer. My broadband connection is via wireless, believe it or not, to a transmitter five miles away. I was one of the founders of the company. Unfortunately, I’m at the limit of the bandwidth that the connection can provide at my pay tier and equipment – the 6mbps is as fast as it goes, and to jump to a higher speed requires completely different equipment at many times the price. So if I want to continue running my server at home, I have to get “business grade” cable internet service, at a much higher price (and have to renumber my network which is a pain). Believe me, I’ve contemplated moving my server to ‘the cloud’ (I do this stuff for a living) – but the ongoing cost of doing_that_ would be even higher than either of the options now (two connections, or one business grade connection).
In short, it’s a pain in the arse. Not to mention how loathsome comcast is on top of all that.
“However, I’m loathe to recommend the Apple ecosystem for content in general, […]”
I agree. I’m agnostic on computer ecosystems – every single day I use a windows PC, a macbook pro, Solaris, linux, and android. But I really dislike Apple’s lock-in. I love my macbook pro and sing its praises, but I have never used iTunes and don’t plan on doing so any time soon.
Evolution published a support note that confirms Amazon downloads on all TiVo platforms will be retired (and that Plex is coming). Who knows who’s eligible for those Amazon coupons tho – seems hit or miss.
https://zatznotfunny.com/2015-03/confirmed-plex-headed-to-tivo/
Amazon themselves now confirms it on their help page. No mention of coupons codes, just pumping up how great streaming is for not taking up space
I didnt get the email so i called and asked. they said it was apparently sent to users who only have an S3 or below and who used the service often. I have one HD and never used the service but they did give me a credit on my account for $50.
With the base roamio being $140 right now, i pulled the trigger and got it for $90. $90 + MSD lifetime comes out to the same as if I tried to haggle the guy on ebay with his codes in which he just increased to $70 from $40.
I finally weakened over the weekend and decided, even though I had just sprung for a Roku 3, the $100 credit Amazon had offered me on a Roamio was too good to pass up so I ordered a Roamio Plus for $210 plus tax. Probably a good price, but I have Lifetime Service on my S3 TiVo and Lifetime Service is $500 now from TiVo. I called them and the best price they would give me on lifetime for the Roamio is $400 because I’m an existing customer. I’m trying to recover from high heating bills this Winter so I guess the Roamio will be sitting in its box for awhile, maybe until Fall.
“I’m trying to recover from high heating bills this Winter so I guess the Roamio will be sitting in its box for awhile, maybe until Fall.”
Can’t argue on the cost front. But if you can afford it, it’s an absolutely lovely box. Best hardware/software combo anyone’s in the space has ever made. Personally, I prefer the annual service plans, especially if you can negotiate a grandfathering of an S3 plan. Even though you may well end up paying more in the end, after 3 or 4 years; the flexibility is nice, and I like incentivizing them to continue to support older hardware.
(And I say that as someone who held tight to my TiVo HD throughout the S4 series because I thought the S4 was a dog, and not worth a single extra dollar.)
Also, if you ever activate and want to stick a 3TB drive in the thing, it’s been made simple for mere mortals.
Yes Chucky, I had read that, to replace the hard drive or upgrade to a larger drive, Tivo has made it very easy on the Roamio and all one needs to do is mechanically swap the drive and TiVo firmware sets it up for you. I had put a 1TB drive in my S3 and know I had to do considerable time consuming research, buy some cables and use two different computers to get the rather tedious process done of cloning the drive. TiVo is to be commended for making the drive changing process easy for us.
I don’t know what is involved in transferring recorded shows from an S3 to a Roamio or if it can be done.
You’ll be able to transfer shows from S3 to Roamio using MRV, assuming they both have service and are on the same network. I plan to offload some stuff from my Premiere XL4 to my Roamio that arrives today that way.
The hard drive replacement was surely designed for TiVo’s cable partners but benefits us civilians. Up to 3TB can be done with no special work pre-install. Looks like Weaknees offers up to 6TB… for a price. 2-3TB is probably the sweet spot for me and is the right amount of effort. ;)
Is MRV something I have to buy? Download? Or is it something already in the Roamio programming?
MRV stands for multi-room viewing and is a standard feature that copies recordings from one TiVo to another. Pretty sure you can go S3 to Roamio.
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/161
Yep you can transfer between Roamio and an S3 :)
Just a note on MRV, transfers work fine between S3 & Roamio slow but fine. However if you are on cable some transfers might be prohibited by your cable company pretty sure stuff from HBO and other premium channels can not be transferred and depending on your cable company other stations may also be restricted.
More details on the Amazon changes from TiVo:
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/259/session/L2F2LzExL3NpZC8zcFM2QWVobQ==
“pretty sure stuff from HBO and other premium channels can not be transferred”
FWIW, FIOS has sane CCI byte policies, and only the Time-Warner premiums are locked down. And even that is a somewhat recent development that only came about at Time-Warner’s demand. So stuff like Showtime and the rest are offloadable.
But all the other MSO’s have far more insane CCI byte policies than FIOS…
The only thing you can transfer with Cox is the locals.
Cox is or was unusual in that not each region had/has the same copy restrictions in place. I feel like San Diego and/or Phoenix is/was more open whereas when I had them in 2009 and 2010 in Virginia, they were locked down and sucky in several ways.
https://zatznotfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/tivo-cci-byte.jpg
Hey, Beavis. Cox. Heh, heh. Heh, heh, heh.
“I had put a 1TB drive in my S3 and know I had to do considerable time consuming research, buy some cables and use two different computers to get the rather tedious process done of cloning the drive.”
Yuperoo.
I actually did it twice with my TiVo HD. The first time, I did it the “normal” way to put in a 1TB drive. And I’m weird enough that I actually found the process fun! Then I did it a second time with the belatedly discovered hack to put a 2TB drive in the same box. By that time, the fun was gone, and it was just, as you say, tedious. Though I did still feel some warm fuzzy feelings of DIY satisfaction afterwards.
“TiVo is to be commended for making the drive changing process easy for us.”
Yuperoo, again.
I’m both happy for the easier upgrade method in the S5, and the associated benefits of putting the OS on faster solid state storage. (But, hell, if the Weakness 6TB special sauce ever gets reverse-engineered, I’d be willing to undergo the DIY tedium a third time. Unlike Dave, I understand the best way to get value out of your monthly cable bill is to record it all, and let god sort it out.)
Dave may well be correct in the MSO derived corporate rationale for the easier upgrades. But TiVo is indeed to be commended for consistently finding a way to find synergy between serving its MSO customers and its hardy band of deranged retail customers. Remember, Tivo knows when you’ve upgraded your drive; if they wanted they could turn off service for homebrews, but instead, they love their deranged hardy band…
Actually I guess I should have said that I had found the steps necessary in cloning a TiVo drive very time consuming not tedious, as I too in my warped way thought it was fun and I got a tremendous satisfaction in proving that once again lowly man can triumph over mighty machine!
Thanks to everyone for the information on copying shows from an S3 to a Roamio. That was quite helpful.
Just a tip if anyone is interested, nextwarehouse.com is selling the WD 3TB AV-GP hard drive WD30EURX for 110.93 with free shipping .
Cox Arizona for me, totally locked down except the locals.
“Cox Arizona for me, totally locked down except the locals.”
Too bad you’re not in metro Phoenix or San Diego. Not only are all CCI byte restrictions gone, but you get access to all channels, whether you’ve paid for them or not. It’s the legendary Cox paradise folks have sought after ever since Ponce De Leon first explored the New World in search of the one magical MSO.
“Too bad you’re not in metro Phoenix”
Last time I checked Mesa is in metro Phoenix.
“Last time I checked Mesa is in metro Phoenix.”
Typo on my part. I meant city limits Phoenix. You’re so close to the legendary Fountain of Magical MSO Youth…
(Cox is appropriately named, no?)
And Wes, it’s not as if the overwhelming bulk of US consumers are subject to essentially unregulated monopoly broadband wireline MSO’s, so you can just switch to another wireline MSO with more customer-friendly policies. Easy peasy!
I only got half way down the comments but I am just blown away that no one gets what is really going on and the real outrage.
Everyone is so happy to put all their personal data and purchases on their “cloud”. How can everyone be so stupid?
You are putting your stuff into the hands of the corporations. They don’t want you to actually possess your purchases.
Doesn’t anyone remember when Amazon first pulled some books off of kindle because they had some copyright dispute with the publisher? They can do that with anything, its in those terms of service you agree to every time. No one remembers back in the 90s when Microsoft was trying to search your hard drive for unauthorized copies of their OS? There was outcry then, no, you can’t read my hard drive! But now its a matter of course. Does anyone remember when apple computers were all about what you could create? I can’t get my home made movies and music on my iPad, you have to BUY content and you have to buy it from the Apple Store, and agree to the most outrageous terms. Everyone just does it. Facebook? Privacy? I was looking at some vacation spots on Trip Advisor and it said your friend so and so has been here, why dont you ask them? Did anyone read Orwell’s 1984?
The government doesn’t have to spy on us, we give them all our private information. Going older… anyone remember when the government was subpoenaing library records of protesters to see what books they were taking from the library? There were laws created to protect people from such intrusions, but now… here ya go. You might as well walk down the street naked.
Music and video, we could record from anywhere, radio, records, CDs on tape, it was a labor of love to make a compilation tape for a friend. And they could take it and make it for another friend, and if you bought a record or CD you could take it to your friend’s house and play it on their player. There would be no Rolling Stones if Mick Jagger hadn’t seen Keith Richards carrying an album he wanted to hear while they were both waiting for the same train. Try and play something you bought from the Apple Store on your friend’s ipad.
Everyone so happy to just pay and pay and pay and pay and pay and buy an app to do something that used to be free, and while they are at it, here’s all my personal information, my friends, my politics, my bank account – my bank wrote me the other day to say that they noticed I logged in on an old browser, and told me to please upgrade. It’s free, right? So why are all the companies now making it impossible to use their web sites unless you upgrade your browser? Same lie as Amazon- too hard to support the new features on older system. Lie. I have been programming computers since the 1960s, don’t try and convince me- what they have in the newer free upgrades, from OS’s to browsers is better access to your personal information. You don’t need a chip to be implanted in your brain, you are happily carrying one around with you everywhere, its reporting your location, and you are helping by posting every second what you are eating who you are seeing…
So when you could download something to your hard drive, like a video that you BOUGHT, you could watch it anywhere, any time. Try watching an Amazon video you bought at home in the US when you go to another country. You can’t stream it. As someone mentioned above, you can’t watch it on a plane. It has NOTHING to do with the download speed, that’s an excuse (while the same companies are trying to get preferential speeds while the peasants will have slow lines).
I bought digitizing boxes through the years, working on movies, my older digitizing box easily digitizes DVDs and even LDs, but my new box recognizes the copyright protection and wont let me digitize. Digitizing at home is the same thing as recording on a tape. But hey, you don’t mind, right? You don’t need to actually possess what you bought, right?
I am technical enough that I can digitize (record) what I stream, so I will be OK in any case. I have 2 S3s and happened to have bought a Roamio in December because I have also an S2 I dont use, that has a monthly rate of $6, half of my monthly rate for the S3s and I could transfer that to the Roamio and I also got $100 off, or maybe it was $125… that discount was already there from December.
So congratulations, you are all happy and defending Amazon and Tivo’s right to take possession of your purchases and dole them out to you as they see fit, take them away if they choose, and you get to go buy more of their equipment knowing in advance that you wont have the ability to download any more. And it only cost you $90!
yay.
Or maybe we’re already aware of the problem and recognize our limited ability to change things? The powers that be can revoke downloads the same way they can brick your Blu-ray discs or delete movies. Another good example, as you mentioned, is Amazon removing books from Kindle. Given an Internet connection and DRM scheme you don’t control, a download is merely an illusion of ownership. That’s why I buy all my movies on reels.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5693/cinavia-drm-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-blurays-selfdestruction/2
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/24/AR2010022403266.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html?_r=0
Rachel, you are not technical enough if you call it “digitizing” or “digitizing box”.
If you pull up the tin foil hat slightly enough to uncover your eyes and actually read the EULA on digital movies, you will see and hopefully comprehend that you don’t own the movie. You have a license to play the movie until they decide when they don’t want you to. The same goes for “digitizing” physical disks. You don’t own them, you own the license, they own the intellectual property. It’s illegal to crack the encryption, not to back up.
This is why I don’t buy “digitized” stuff. My personal preference. Luckily for me, I took advantage of your misfortune and used it to upgrade the tivo that was relegated to the garage.
Educate yourself before you continue to make a fool of yourself.
I still say it’s *maybe illegal*… :D
Speaking of digitizing, just received this HDMI splitter from Amazon to complete the HDCP handshake so I can do some video capture from a device that conveniently (ha) includes no analog outputs for future blog coverage.
“You are putting your stuff into the hands of the corporations. They don’t want you to actually possess your purchases. Doesn’t anyone remember when Amazon first pulled some books off of kindle because they had some copyright dispute with the publisher?”
I’m a big fan of purchasing physical media. That’s where the bulk of my purchasing dollars go.
But sometimes I prefer the convenience of buying digital rights. And I do understand the tradeoffs. (For example, If I want to rent a movie from a director whose movies I tend to re-watch, and the price for buying is 2x that of a rental, I’ll tend to buy instead. And there’s a few high-quality TV seasons a year I’ll buy just to avoid the hassles of dealing with the ad-chopeed, badged, spoilered, multicast version.)
I’ve followed numerous rights issues with Amazon over the years, and with the other resellers of digital rights. I also think about how the various corporate resellers interests and my interests align or don’t align. And when I compute all that, I far prefer Amazon as my vendor for digital rights over its competitors.
I think I have a far better bet of being able to access those rights in the future, using my choice of device, with Amazon than with its competitors.
“So when you could download something to your hard drive, like a video that you BOUGHT, you could watch it anywhere, any time.”
Assuming you’re speaking here of the Amazon download service that’s just been cancelled, you’re dead wrong. You were still purchasing digital rights, and Amazon could delete it from your device if they chose, just as with a Kindle, which also downloads.
The only digital media you can really “own”, in the same essential way you can own the digital media on a physical disc, is non-DRM’d digital media that you take care to backup.
(And FWIW, try moving to a foreign country with your Blu-Ray or DVD collection. You’ll find you can’t play that stuff back without getting on the wrong side of the de jure law, even if it’s quite possible in reality with some minor hassle.)
“The same goes for “digitizing” physical disks. You don’t own them, you own the license, they own the intellectual property. It’s illegal to crack the encryption”
Dave sez *maybe illegal*.
To be precise: it’s unquestionably illegal by the letter of the law. But there have been zero prosecutions for personal usage in 16 years, so it’s de facto legal.
(Of course, I’m paranoid about the IP protections that are being secretly, literally secretly, stuffed into the two trans-oceanic trade treaties likely to get passed. Treaties take precedence over US law, and even the US constitution. No reason the “DVD Jon” case couldn’t be overruled by the treaties, with all that would entail.)
On the other hand, if you don’t want to own media long term, consider the price for a short-term viewing or ownership. Most things are available used on Amazon. That gets you a discount. But then if a week or a month later you get around to it, it’s very easy to sell that item back. You end up paying maybe 20% of the purchase price for your short term access (but more generous than some of the 48 hour rental deals on Amazon). This is much cheaper than renting the same titles on Amazon Instant Video.
Oh boy, now TiVo messages say the series 3 will lose access to Youtube as well…
I think it sucks, but so long as I can keep recording OTA programming IDGAF about Amazon and their nonsense.
Now, someone said something about not being able to transfer to/from a PC anymore? That would get my blood boiling, to the tune of ‘screw you Tivo’. At that point I’d probably stop watching TV entirely and read more or something. Sad, because it’s my ‘down time’.
Update, as if April 21, 2015 Amazon has pulled the plug on all TIVO customer’s even those who took the offer to upgrade their hardware. Amazon customer support is telling TIVO customers that they have technical problem and to contact TIVO support, which I did. What TIVO customer support told me is that Amazon made demands to dumb down all TIVO hardware to prevent any downloading, TIVO refused, so after selling new units to customer who wanted to upgrade, Amazon unplugged every TIVO box, leaving those customer with nothing but streaming capability. Sounds some what legitimate until you try to stream content, then you discover that Amazon is also throttling bandwidth on all TIVO unit from 25Mbps down to 575Kbps, that’s is so slow you either get no audio and or, the stream pauses every 10 seconds to refill the buffer. If you a TIVO owner I suggest waiting on the class action law suit because this is clearly a breach of contract between Amazon and their customer who own Amazon approved TIVO hardware.
“Sounds some what legitimate until you try to stream content, then you discover that Amazon is also throttling bandwidth on all TIVO unit from 25Mbps down to 575Kbps, that’s is so slow you either get no audio and or, the stream pauses every 10 seconds to refill the buffer.”
Not my experience with Amazon via TiVo an hour ago, Randall.
(And FWIW, Amazon doesn’t ship 25Mbps streams to any platform, unless we’re talking about demo 4K content, and probably not even then.)
Amazon always said it was going to cut service for DOWNLOADS to Premier and Roamio too. Those devices are the only ones which could ever handle streaming. Prime Instant Videos (included in subscription) were never available for the Series 2 and Series 3 units since they did require streaming player capability.
Hopefully this is just a transient streaming service issue you are experiencing. You do need a better network connection to handle streaming as opposed to download.
Amazon did something even more basically illegal by cutting off Tivo downloading. They broke their contract for anyone, like myself, who was FORCED to BUY IN ADVANCE each full season of any TV show offered that is current, so each new episode would only be available after it showed on its regular network. I paid for a full season of several shows, and with tha purchase months back, I paid for the ability to download each weekly episode and watch or record it at my convenience. This contract was BROKEN as of 04/15/2015 when Amazon did what it did against ALL Tivo owners!! So I say lets get that class action suit going since I called Amazon, made my complaint and insisted that they refund my Seasons IN FULL because it’s another thing they changed I was opposed to by changing to buying seasons in full in advance. So if I had not had to buy the ENTIRE SEASON in FULL IN ADVANCE, I would only ask for the few episodes of each season left not able to be downloaded, but the contract was for a full season, and it’s a full season I expect to be reimbursed for. Amazon Instant Video division brought all Thai on themselves just by being a bunch of complete jerks. I’ve no problem with any other division of Amazon as I spend tens of thousands of dollars with Amazon every year for the past 15 years. I’m disabled and do not have any local stores I can get to that have even a fraction of the variety Amazon does. It’s not like when I used to live in NJ and could find everything anywhere, or go to NYC if I really had a tough time buying locally. So, it’s all centering for me around this insane decision to cutoff fair treatment of Tivo owners and the breaking of Season contracts bought in advance because of another previous, yet fairly recent Amazon Instant Video policy change. Whoever a runs that division should be examined for mental malfunction!! No more movies, or shows that are not Prime, so AIV just lost at least about $600.00/year from me. I’ll go to YouTube and download pirated shows and movies if I have to, but I’ll not give another penny to AIV for screwing me over!!