TiVo Bolt Clears The FCC

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As TiVo Bolt nears release, the clues continue to trickle out. Most recent is an FCC filing that identifies three models. As two of those very same three DVR units appeared in a CableLabs certification report, it seems safe to speculate that we may be looking at two CableCARD models and one over-the-air “Aereo Edition” Bolt. By comparison, there are currently four Roamio SKUs… two of which don’t actually “roam.” Beyond standard DVR capabilities, might this TiVo shortcoming to be resolved with all Bolt models optionally streaming video to smartphones, tablets, and perhaps other end-points down the road?

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tivo-boltFrom the little we’ve seen thus far, TiVo appears to have done away with the traditional set-top box enclosure (as they did away with their in-house industrial design team). And not only may the Bolt be white and curved (?!), thanks to the FCC filing we also learn the Roamio replacement clocks in substantially smaller than existing hardware — to the tune of 40% less volume (according to one forum member’s math).

The EUT enclosure is primarily constructed of plastic. It measures approximately 28.7 cm wide by 17.5 cm deep by 4.5 cm high.

With a max height of only 1.77″, we wonder if TiVo is sticking with full-sized hard drives for storage and can effectively disperse heat. Beyond its unusual appearance, perhaps the Bolt’s arch will assist in the thermodynamics department.

Timeline:

52 thoughts on “TiVo Bolt Clears The FCC”

  1. At that smaller size I would think there might be a 2.5″ hard drive in there. Maybe. Anyway if they end up actually being white, there would need to be a nice performance boost for me to even think about upgrading from my Roamios to the Bolt.

    I have no desire to add a piece of white electronics when all the other dozens of electronic devices I have are black.

    Now if there is a black version, then I would be very likely to replace my Roamios. As long as I can have the same features and storage space. IN the past I have always updated to new model TiVos as soon as they were released. I would like to continue that trend. But not if the enclosures are white.

  2. “At that smaller size I would think there might be a 2.5″ hard drive in there”

    I wondered about that once the form factor was announced it, given that:

    – A 2GB 2.5 HD” sells for $160
    – There are no AV 2.5″ HD’s, to the best of my knowledge.
    – 2.5″ HD’s max out at 2GB.

    So, after figuring that out, I dismissed the concept. But who the hell knows? It’d surprise the hell out of me, though. Really doesn’t make sense on multiple levels.

    —–

    Haven’t done the math on the enclosure size, but if they can fit a 3.5″ HD in there, I gotta assume that’s how they’ll go. I have far fewer worries about heat dissipation than Dave.

    I’ve long had a very nice openable 3.5″ single drive enclosure that:

    – Fits the HD like a glove
    – Had no fan
    – No cooling system except passive convection.
    – Accommodates hotter running, ‘non-Green’, ‘non-AV’ HD’s
    – Has zero problems with heat dissipation

    So I really don’t think Dave’s heat dissipation concerns are fully merited.

    But on the downside, the compactness of the enclosure dramatically increases my take that we’ve seen the end of user-accessible hard drives for mere mortals. And that’s a real drag for users, both for cutting initial costs, and for user-maintenance when things go blooey. Roamio FOR EVAR!

  3. My heat concerns are hard drive + tuners + transcoding. Especially that transcoding. There’s a reason the TiVo Stream has a perforated top (that has a history of fan spinning up), why the Slingbox M1/M2 has a vented top, and why Simple TV had to redesign their 2nd gen transcoding hardware shortly after release with a similarly perforated enclosure. Hopefully whomever TiVo outsourced the ID to was aware of the components during the design phase and skilled in these matters.

  4. “My heat concerns are hard drive + tuners + transcoding. Especially that transcoding. There’s a reason the TiVo Stream has a perforated top (that has a history of fan spinning up) and a reason why Simple TV had to redesign their 2nd gen transcoding hardware with a similarly perforated enclosure.”

    OK. Your concerns make far better sense to me now. Maybe they’ll need a fan in there, along with whatever convection they’re getting out of the form factor, and perhaps copious thermal paste too.

    But even with outsourcing design, I’d still be astonished if something this basic this wasn’t taken into account. TiVo is both bigger, and has a far longer track-record of worrying about such issues than someone like Simple TV. Still think screwing up something that basic on the hardware level would be really un-TiVo…

  5. I don’t care at all what color the box is or its shape. Those things are completely inconsequential. I don’t have a Tivo to look at the box.

    If there’s no significant improvement besides a nominal speed increase then I won’t upgrade now. I’ve had my Roamio Plus (with 3 TB drive) on lifetime for almost 2 years now and it works quite well for me. I’ll wait awhile for prices to come down and sales to kick in before I even consider upgrading for a mere speed boost. The Roamio is fast enough for me.

  6. “TiVo is both bigger, and has a far longer track-record of worrying about such issues than someone like Simple TV”

    The Simple TV hardware, or at least the guts, was produced by Silicon Dust… whose entire product line consists of transcoding and network tuners. Hopefully TiVo has it all sorted and I’m being overly concerned.

    Daniel, I feel the same way. Unless there’s something more than minor performance improvements and new form factor, I’ll be sitting this one out. Of course, us Roamio and Premiere owners aren’t the target audience. TiVo needs to upgrade their Series 3/HD customers and find many, many new customers if this is to remain a sustainable business once their patent licensing and payouts expire in a couple years.

  7. “I don’t care at all what color the box is or its shape. Those things are completely inconsequential. I don’t have a Tivo to look at the box.”

    Easy to just say that. But if TiVo were to release a translucent, lava-lamp, glowing orb that occasionally levitated, I think we’d all pay any price on release day…

  9. “WD has been making 2.5 AV drives for a few years.”

    Thanks for the info, rcrach. I’d still be astonished if they went in that direction, as it just doesn’t make sense to me from a TiVo POV on cost/capacity issues, but who the hell knows…

  10. As long as tuning adapters are around, not sure a curved design is the best solution. I don’t know about others, but I don’t have the space to put my tuning adapter any other location besides right on top of the Roamio.

  11. I’d imagine they would use an external power supply “brick” to free up space and reduce heat into the unit.

  12. “As long as tuning adapters are around, not sure a curved design is the best solution. I don’t know about others, but I don’t have the space to put my tuning adapter any other location besides right on top of the Roamio.”

    Not arguing the essential inanity of the curved design, but the space you lose on top may be adequately compensated by the much reduced footprint…

  14. Back to the hard drive item, is it not possible that Western Digital has partnered with TiVo again to create a smaller form factor hard drive that is suitable for AV performance? It wouldn’t be the first time they developed for TiVo, and then extended that product to other manufacturers… It stands to reason that they could have done so again to allow for a 2.5″ 2 or 3 TB drive at a reduced cost to TiVo (which would be much lower than the consumer price anyway), if TiVo footed a portion of the R&D costs. It wouldn’t necessarily show up in the TiVo filing since they didn’t do any of the design work, but is it possible that WD has a filing of its own out there?

  16. Oops…disregard again, as I missed that they had both 3.5″ and 2.5″ grouped together, so 2.5″ AV only hits 1 TB….where’s that delete comment button??

  17. “Oops…disregard again, as I missed that they had both 3.5″ and 2.5″ grouped together, so 2.5″ AV only hits 1 TB”

    Yeah. I just don’t see it. A DVR is a stationary object. It doesn’t have to be ultra-tiny. Even if larger 2.5″ AV drives existed, the cost difference wouldn’t go away.

  18. I was thinking they wanted to create an ultra small unit to compete with Roku (though not the stick version) and other sff box offerings, but with added DVR capabilities to justify a larger size. At under a foot wide and around half a foot deep, that is probably as micro as it can get unless/until flash media becomes a viable storage option.

  19. It’s not the box size that’s been holding them back, it’s the pricing… which may or may not be something they can improve upon. Having had about $1b in the bank, there was an opportunity to take smaller margins or even subsidize retail to grow marketshare. But, to the Roku point, they could also use a few more over-the-top partners … and I have heard whispers of some app updates. More to come on that, hopefully soon.

  20. “I have heard whispers of some app updates. More to come on that, hopefully soon.”

    You are such a tease, Dave Zatz.

  21. The ones I may know of probably aren’t in your lane…

    However, the one I DON’T know about remains a mystery. We have different thoughts on HBO GO. I think it’s a real possibility and hope it comes to pass one day. I choose to believe the TiVo mobile app deep linking HBO GO content indicates some sort of agreement is already in place and it foreshadows a set-top app.

  22. Back to box size, as we discussed here or on TiVo Community, I wonder if a new Mini will ultimately be released with similar design cues in a smaller form factor. I could probably use another Mini, preferably with WiFi…

  23. What they really need is HBO Go and HBO Now to appeal to those who have cable still and those who have cut the cable but still want HBO.

  24. “We have different thoughts on HBO GO. I think it’s a real possibility and hope it comes to pass one day. I choose to believe the TiVo mobile app deep linking HBO GO content indicates some sort of agreement is already in place and it foreshadows a set-top app.”

    Hey. I’m very optimistic about HBO Go on the TiVo box as well. We just have completely completely different rationales on why it’ll get there. For example, I still don’t think the linking on the TiVo mobile app has anything to do with HBO on the TiVo box. But again, I’m just as optimistic as you, just for different reasons.

    “The ones I may know of probably aren’t in your lane…”

    I knew it. Blockbuster VOD is coming!

  25. For whatever it’s worth, I mostly use HBO GO and HBO NOW interchangeably. Although I could envision a scenario where RCN TiVos only get HBO GO whereas retail TiVos get NOW and GO. Should it come to pass.

  26. “For whatever it’s worth, I mostly use HBO GO and HBO NOW interchangeably.”

    But, but, (and I could be wrong about this), isn’t one the full HBO catalog, and the other one just Gilligan’s Island and McHale’s Navy re-runs? (I’m never sure which is which.)

    “Although I could envision a scenario where RCN TiVos only get HBO GO whereas retail TiVos get NOW and GO. Should it come to pass.”

    Actually, it’s about ethics in OTT services. I think the two are VERY separable in terms of which one(s) land on the TiVo box. Though my optimism in term of HBO Go landing on the TiVo box is the leverage that the threat of HBO Now landing on the TiVo box would place on MSO’s to authorize HBO Go on the TiVo box…

  27. Is it conceivable for TiVo to go with an HDMI stick version of the Mini like Google, Roku and Amazon have all done in the last couple of years? I know that the TiVo would need to be larger still if it includes Moca and Ethernet, which are current requirements for streaming (unless they go full-on AC, and drop the hard-wired connectivity requirement).

  28. I could envision a wireless HDMI stick Mini. But I doubt they’d go down that path. Cheaper, easier, and fewer support calls to stick with a small box… or $6/mo Fire TV app.

  29. A new OTT app that wouldn’t appeal to Chucky? Do tell, Dave. Could it begin with “Show” and end in “time”? (Actually, I’d be a little surprised if it comes to TiVo before Android, Chromecast and Amazon Fire. As for HBO Now, surely Roku is the next platform they’re planning to develop for; that said, I’m sure it’s something TiVo is asking for.)

  30. “A new OTT app that wouldn’t appeal to Chucky? Do tell, Dave. Could it begin with “Show” and end in “time”?”

    Oh, how wrong you are. I’d be incredibly amped for a ShowTCMLeanbackTime app.

    Though, considering TCM hasn’t made their OTT app available for any lean-back platform, I’d be rather surprised if TiVo were the first. But I’d still be very amped.

  31. Despite those pics from the ad, I’m still not convinced those are accurate representations of the hardware. Looks like placeholder art to me.

  32. No, that’s it.

    I suppose it’s possible they keep the top end Roamio around as is for a more “professional” look. They’ll be clearing inventory for awhile, if the Premiere > Roamio transition is any indication.

  33. “A 2GB [sic] 2.5 HD” sells for $160″

    2.5″ 2TB external USB 3.0 drives are as low as $70 @ retail.

    I’m sure Tivo could buy 2.5” 2TB AV drives all day long for around $50.

  34. “I’m sure Tivo could buy 2.5″ 2TB AV drives all day long for around $50.”

    Except, if you read upthread, you’ll notice that 2TB AV drives seemingly don’t exist at any price…

  35. Dave, have you seen anything related to hardware look/feel other than that (now pulled) TiVo page? That B&W device just intuitively seems so wrong…

  36. Wasn’t TiVo working on doing server-side storage of programs? If so, then the device wouldn’t need much drive space (if any). Local storage would mostly just be needed to buffer live shows and temporary space to hold things that haven’t had a chance to upload to the cloud storage.

    It makes sense storage-wise. If a half-million people “record” Big Bang Theory on a NYC station, TiVo would only need to upload one copy of it from one of the devices, and then everyone else that “recorded” it could pull from that one copy to watch it time-shifted (live watching would still be from their local TiVo box). That would save massive amounts of cumulative drive space.

  37. The way the lawsuits and rulings and industry has gone is that each customer needs their own distinct cloud recording. Now it’s possible a MSO could negotiate something like you propose and similar to On Demand, but TiVo wouldn’t have those relationships in place. Combined with large file sizes and broadband caps, I’d say wholesale cloud storage is off the table at this time. Maybe there’s some hybrid thing they could do to replace or change Stream functionality, but the bulk of the storage will most likely remain local in my estimation.

  38. I’d thought the Aereo decision boiled down to them being ruled equal to a cable company because they were charging customers a subscription fee to retransmit live network feeds from tuners housed on Aereo’s property. TiVo (mothership) wouldn’t be recording shows and then sharing them out, it’d be housing shows recorded by devices in people’s homes. Have there been rulings specifically banning recording a single copy of a show as long as each customer actually obtains the live feed directly from the network (or cable company) individually? It’s pretty much equal to the way Amazon Audio (and others) can read what music I have on my computer and “upload” them to their systems so that they’re available on all my devices through Amazon’s app — they don’t actually store millions of copies of each song, they just look at what I have obtained through 3rd-party means and give me access to the master-copy of that song on their servers.

  39. Centralized recording predates Aereo and even Aereo tried to skirt this particular wrinkle by making individual recordings (from individual antennas). This is something Cablevision kind of led the charge on and others, like Charter via ActiveVideo, have expanded upon. Interestingly, ActiveVideo showed me TiVo running on a Roku…

    https://zatznotfunny.com/2008-08/a-cablevision-win-for-network-dvr-aka-cloud-tv/

    https://zatznotfunny.com/2013-06/is-activevideo-powering-tivos-cloud-initiative/

    In regards to your Amazon music analogy, video is more complex – more links in the ownership/licensing/distribution chain, plus regional advertising to consider.

  40. “This is something Cablevision kind of led the charge on and others”

    I’ve always assumed I didn’t need to pay attention to the Cablevision case, cuz it didn’t have anything to do with TiVo. I mean, TiVo can’t just make DVR’s in the cloud without a user having a CableCARD and local storage, right? And if so, it makes anything TiVo ever does in the ‘cloud’ space have nothing to do with the Cablevision case, right?

  41. I believe it sets the stage, even tho it could be challenged as many of the dynamics are different without content relationships, given local tuning and offloading the content to someone else’s cloud. The Boxee DVR tuned and cached locally while saving recordings to the cloud. That was OTA-only but a perhaps a good example of how hard it’d be to pull off on a technological level, if not legal. That product didn’t get enough traction for the likes of CBS to say wait a minute.

  42. “The Boxee DVR tuned and cached locally while saving recordings to the cloud. That was OTA-only but a perhaps a good example of how hard it’d be to pull off on a technological level, if not legal.”

    Sure. Unless I’ve really missed something in translation, that is perfectly legal, and has nothing to do with the Cablevision case. (However, like I say, I have only a very vague understanding of the Cablevision case.)

    But the issues that stand in the way are technical, to be sure, but even more to the point, economic, I’d assume.

  43. With regards to TiVo offering cloud storage, I don’t know if their compression techniques would hold up, if TiVo stream is any indication… Within the same network it has been fine, but it has been choppy from a different network. Sometimes it is better than others, but I have a media server with real-time transcoding and Netflix, among other streaming options, and get dramatically better results than TiVo stream (granted, I only have a 50 Mbps upload, as opposed to a huge fiber backbone that would likely serve a TiVo cloud).

  44. Is there any reason why the Bolt wouldn’t be something similar to the HD Homerun Prime and not have a Hard Drive at all, being a network tuner and all? They could make it compatible with an NAS for storage and then use thin clients on devices like Roku, FireTV, XBox, PS3/4, etc. Maybe they even teamed up with Silicon Dust to develop it, the same as Simple.TV?

  46. “Also from the FCC filing, we’ve learned the Bolt will feature 802.11ac. Might that foreshadow a wireless Mini?! Pretty please?”

    Welcome for power users, of course. You can make it work. I can make it work.

    But I’d guess that overwhelming majority of users won’t be able to get it to work smoothly. So TiVo would have a significant communications / backlash issue on their hands…

  47. AC seems like overkill if they don’t plan to do something with it. Unless it was just bonus with their preferred Broadcom chipset.

  48. “AC seems like overkill if they don’t plan to do something with it.”

    No doubt. (Unless your speculation about it coming ‘free’ with the chipset they selected is true.)

    Just pointing out that getting it to work smoothly for MRV is is going to require technical expertise (and additional equipment) beyond what most customers are capable of, which presents challenges for TiVo.

    You’ll essentially need a line-of-sight access point in the same room as the Mini, and if the Bolt is using WiFi instead of wired, you’ll need proper infrastructure there too. All very doable, but just beyond the intuitive capabilities for most. After all, Google just released an expensive router for folks whom basic WiFi is too complicated.

    However, what if the point here isn’t MRV? What if the point here is simply for the Bolt to better accommodate OTA users and CableCARD users not doing MoCA? If that’s the case, all gain and no pain…

    (And hell, they can still release a WiFi Mini as long as they stamp UNSUPPORTED in big red letters all across the universe.)

  50. AC could serve MRV, as I had it running reasonably well over N at my house from my Premiere to my Roamio. I would think AC is more about simply providing the latest iteration of the technology so that a user can have a wireless connection for their TiVo without buying any accessories, just like they did with the Roamio Pro/Plus. Why AC? When most people go to the store to buy a new router, everything considered “high-end” is AC, so this may be more of a marketing ploy… It isn’t cheap, but if it was an add-in from Broadcom, then bonus. Either way, it allows for big writing on the promo materials stating “Built-In 802.11AC Wi-Fi” (and in small print, “Not to be used for Multi-Room Viewing”).

  51. Why do they have to go make the boxes a weird shape like this. It makes it very difficult to put in equipment racks or to install behind a wall mounted tv.

  52. Any new guesses as to when they will reveal more info about what TiVo Bolt is/does that’s different from the Roamio?

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