While we generally caution against purchasing hardware soon to be replaced, this TiVo promotion deserves special consideration if you’re in the market. Purchase a four-tuner Roamio OTA or a refurb Roamio, capable of handling OTA or CableCARD tuning, for $50 direct from TiVo and get Lifetime service for a highly compelling, extremely discounted $250.
It’s really quite the deal. However, the TiVo Bolt could be just weeks away… and we do anticipate it will replace the Roamio. As to DVR differences, it’s safe to assume a modest bump in specs and the possibility of integrated Stream capabilities. So if beaming live and recorded video to mobile devices is on your wishlist, it may be worth waiting for the Bolt with less favorable pricing.
“It’s really quite the deal. However, the TiVo Bolt could be just weeks away … As to DVR differences, it’s same to assume a modest bump in specs and the possibility of integrated Stream capabilities.”
Agree on the likely changes you note, but I do have worries that the new form factor of the Bolt will remove the ability for easy user-upgrades of hard drives.
So if someone anticipates themselves doing that, and my worries prove to be true, the Roamio deal is an even better bargain than it would first appear…
The Bolt needs to be capable of hdmi 2.0a and hdcp 2.2 for UHD streaming with HDR from Amazon, Netflix, and vudu. I so hope this the case.
I don’t anticipate 4k from this particular hardware, mostly a reinterpretation of the existing “Series 5” platform. I do agree with Chucky that the new form factor could pose some problems. Beyond hard drive accessibility, I sure hope they’ve figured out how to effectively disperse heat.
The cost of a new Stream box is $129 (even less for used on eBay). Adding that to the $300 sale price for Roamio with lifetime service, you’re still probably looking at less than a comparable Bolt with lifetime (unless TiVo is about to permanently reduce the cost of lifetime service). The only way it wouldn’t make sense to jump on this Roamio sale is if the new Bolt turns out to be somehow significantly better than the Roamio, which you doubt is the case, Dave.
“The only way it wouldn’t make sense to jump on this Roamio sale is if the new Bolt turns out to be somehow significantly better than the Roamio, which you doubt is the case, Dave.”
I essentially agree with you, with two caveats:
– Have no idea if the Stream includes a power brick, but that could be a minor issue.
– More importantly, we have no idea how significant the speed bump will be. It’s possible that there is some appropriately priced chipset available that will allow for a major increase in responsiveness for OTT apps. Personally, this wouldn’t really matter to me, as I do my TiVo/OTT through OnePass, which lets me essentially avoid the individual OTT apps’ interface. But there are some folks, (like Dave), who, for reasons inexplicable to me, prefer using the OTT apps directly instead of through OnePass. If someone falls into that category, it’s possible that the Bolt would end up being a major improvement to their UX. (Without OnePass, I simply wouldn’t use my Roamio for OTT due to my hatred of laggy UI’s.)
But, again, with those caveats noted, I do basically agree with you. The deal makes excellent sense for most potential buyers.
It could even make sense instead of a Mini for existing TiVo Premiere/Roamio households – more storage, more tuners, and streaming between existing TiVos/Minis. (I’d also wager that most app speed increases would be accomplished via better software design, to include more local caching.)
“I’d also wager that most app speed increases would be accomplished via better software design, to include more local caching”
Certainly possible, though I’d strongly consider taking the opposite side of that wager. Seems to me like leaning on Moore’s Law is far easier and cheaper than software engineering.
(And “more local caching”, or ‘faster local caching’ seems to me more reliant on hardware than software. Just add more solid state storage. I think there’s already a goodly amount of local caching going on, but it’s just written to the platter drive in current hardware. All that stuff in the top-level discovery bar of the TiVo UI sure as hell seems to be cached to the platter drive, as well as some things in search explorations, and thus I assume any caching of OTT services is done the same way.)
But if the bulk of the speed increase came through software engineering to make Haxe run more efficiently, that would come to S5 (and even S4) boxes too, making the Roamio discount deal even more attractive…
What I really like about the current Roamio is the ability to use both CableCard and OTA antenna as the video source (albeit, not simultaneously). Knowing that I can choose to cancel my cable subscription but still use my Roamio for OTA channels is the reason I went with the base model rather than the Plus or Pro. My concern is that Bolt model(s) won’t have this dual support option which makes me want to jump on this deal even more.
I mean, who really knows what would really make TiVo OTT apps less sluggish?
I certainly don’t. But I do have guesses.
– I’m assuming both the DVR and OTT are written to some Haxe abstraction layer, and that, unlike the pre-Haxe platform, this is not an impossible task to optimize. If this ends up being incorrect, ignore some of what follows.
– I’m assuming that both the DVR and OTT are already doing some caching, but I’m guessing most of that is to platter drives due to insufficient solid state storage space on S5.1. But I could well be wrong about that! The Mini obviously doesn’t have a platter drive, and being a single teevee household, I have no idea how the Mini performs compared to the Roamio. So maybe little to no caching is currently being done at all. The easiest way to handle caching is to increase solid state storage, which gets cheaper every day, in future models.
– Obviously the chipset real-time-interpreting/rendering of Haxe matters. Especially for the demands of individualized OTT apps. That’s why the Mini v2 was preferable to the Mini v1, no? Since chipset performance gets cheaper for a given dollar every day, new hardware ought to be able to handle the task better.
– General software optimization of Haxe seems like high-hanging fruit, but specific software optimization of Haxe to take advantage of certain chipsets seems like low-hanging fruit.
Multiple moving parts, of course. But relying on Moore’s Law, and making a few software adjustments around that objective is how I think they could turbocharge performance of the OTT apps.
(And regarding Dave’s concern about heat dispersion issues on the Bolt, I’ve only been on board TiVo for half their lifespan, but AFAIK, they’ve never screwed up something that basic on a hardware level, have they? In short, I’d be absolutely astonished. I sorta assume the weird tailfin “aerodynamics” of the Bolt are actually about heat dissipation.)
Well, that offer was too good to pass up for replacing my mother in law’s TiVo HD. Her biggest fear in upgrading was being forced to speak to Charter on the phone to pair the cable card with the new unit.
Even though the Bolt is coming out soon, this still seems like a great time to upgrade my setup for cheap. I currenlty have a HDXL on one TV and a Premier on the other – both with lifetime service. Checking Ebay, it looks like I can sell my old stuff and replace it with the Roamio OTA, a Mini, and a drive upgrade for a net zero cost.
Upgraded system. No cost. Thanks, TiVo!
It seems that many have speculated the Bolt may be a cloud based service, and this is NOT necessary a good thing. It is so outrageous that the Bolt model would be your storage in the cloud–not locally with an HDD– and TiVo charges according to how much storage you want–monthly–and, perhaps, no lifetime option? You would be paying for service AND storage, and this revenue would never go away.
This scenario–and none of us really know what TiVo’s model will be for the Bolt, makes the current discounted Roamio (OTA) and Lifetime truly compelling. And as far as streaming, I’ll take a Slingbox over the Stream any day. I think I will bite and get this closeout deal.
I think primary storage will have to remain local for Bolt… As far as pricing, they can indeed flip it up. Their new CMO isn’t afraid to try new approaches and has backing by the executive team unlike some of his predecessors, as far as I can tell.
This does seem like a really, really good deal. Although with Slingbox inserting pre-roll video ads in some cases, who knows how long that solution will remain viable. One of Stream’s big benefits over Slingbox is ability to offload shows on iOS, with Android supposedly on the docket. And I wonder if or when we’ll see Roku, Fire TV, etc clients which would make it even more practical.
All excellent points, Dave. I could see Bolt allowing for attached local HDD or SDD storage (the early screenshots showed a CURVED shaped device and I don’t know how a FLAT HDD fits into that space), at least so as not to create a backlash with loyal legacy TiVo lovers, but I’m willing to bet that TiVo now sees their future more like a Tablo service, and this is something the children (younger generation) would want: storage in the cloud with access from nearly any device at home or mobile, and all with the tiered monthly pricing according to how much storage one wants, and if I were TiVo I would consider not offering Lifetime for the Bolt.
True, offloading is a big feature for the soon to be legacy TiVo user, but I don’t see it for the Bolt because it, if not at the start, will be cloud based and almost exclusively so. The preroll ads on Sling don’t bother me because, at least for now, I can skip them and once in my full screen (Pop-up Player on the PC) there are no ads, and for this Sling will not be charging for any of its apps, and that is good thing.
Bottom line is I can’t wait to hear from TiVo just EXACTLY what the model for Bolt will be, especially since TiVo is abandoning the whole Roamio moniker (still like yesterday to me) for this new device, and its new way of doing things. Not knowing sure does not help many in evaluating just how good (or bad) jumping in on the closeout for Roamio would be. Still, I am planning to get mine tonight. Now, if this closeout pricing had been TiVo’s REGULAR pricing, I think TiVo would have gotten all those CM DVR+ people.
“the early screenshots showed a CURVED shaped device and I don’t know how a FLAT HDD fits into that space”
It’s really not too hard to understand, if you try…
On the basic point, agree with Dave that primary storage, (and I’d actually guess all storage), will be local. Dunno about the fine legal points of cloud DVR’s, contracts with MSO’s + content providers + etc, but even if none of the legal stuff matters, secondary storage in the cloud still doesn’t make sense to me from TiVo’s POV.
Also, if my massively strong presumption that there is local storage is true, I’d bet the ranch that it’s internal storage. Nothing in the form factor as so far depicted conflicts with that. And why ship a groovy form factor if it requires an ugly add-on? Just doesn’t make sense on any level whatsoever.
storage in the cloud–not locally with an HDD
These two technologies do not have to be mutually exclusive. Cloud storage leaders Dropbox & Google use internal storage for performance no matter what device you are using. iPhones and iPads use local NVRAM for a local cache including meta-data on all files in the cloud which is kept in sync. On a PC a HD or SSD is used.
With cloud storage TiVo users would never have to worry about having to upgrade their hard drives for more space. Their HD’s would act as a large cache with most recently recorded shows staying on the HD until pushed out when space is needed for newer shows (LRU cache). The cloud is a full archive including older shows.
When you go to play an older show that’s not in local cache it’s downloaded from the cloud using meta-data (size and name of file) in cache allowing you to start watching immediately as the show continues to download. What Netflix would be if Netflix was allowed to store an entire show/movie locally. Or more like watching a stored show while TiVo continues recording it.
Yes, all the above posts are good points and probably correct. I just have a cynical feeling about where TiVo is headed, and ridding itself of the costs of internal HDD’s and finding a NEW and never ending source of revenue with tiers for space on the cloud and functioning they way a new generation is used to or prefers would be, IMHO, wise business decisions for the FUTURE of TiVo, even my cynical belief that at some point along the Bolt, TiVo would even drop Lifetime just to secure the revenue never ceasing, and the new generation is used to never ending monthly fees as it is. I certainly don’t think my cynical ideas are going to be the case for Bolt at launch, but not so far into the future I doubt TiVo will be the box connected to the TV with all recorded content on it with the current pricing.
And yes, Bryan10024, you are correct, but my cynicism is that from a company like TiVo’s POV, HOW this stuff happens is irrelevant (even if some of it is local), because they are charging for a SERVICE and that service is how all the magic happens, even if it involves both local and cloud operations. After all, the S5 could have easily allowed us the option of PSIP or TiVo’s guide (provided by Tribune now renamed GraceNote), and still charge a lesser fee for the trick play, etc., but that would have mean LESS REVENUE.
I am NOT beating up on TiVo, I am putting myself in their place with the realities they face and the world changing in regards to HOW we get our content, even if it is user initiated DVR content and WHERE we want to view it, and the new generation aint watching their content on an HDTV and find a NON-connected to HDTV box a more elegant technology that seems to natively cater to their mobile preference, not the after thought of a costly Mini and a costly Stream (even if baked in, that increases the cost of the Bolt box). Also, I figure TiVo wants and needs NEW sources of revenue (the SERVICE still being ONE, but now add the cloud storage pricing) that will never end, and then you have a TiVo that can really be around for a very long time and be truly competitive with the emerging Tablo and the likes. That would make TiVo would be what it needs to to survive and even grow.
I just think we are on the verge of a VERY big NEW sort of TiVo after a little time passes from the Bolt launch.
Dang and I just bought mine for $399 on 6/13 ;/
I took several days pondering whether to wait on the Bolt or stick with a known quantity, the Roamio. I finally decided to order the refurbished Roamio with Lifetime Service. Even with multi-TiVo discount at Lifetime at $399, the $249 Lifetime Service AND a box for $49.99 is pretty compelling.
Does anybody have any qualms about the refurbs?
No qualms about TiVo’s refurbs. They’ve generally been very clean, reliable, and TiVo provides the same (stingy) warranty coverage as new, should something happen early on. Long term and for any TiVo, hard drive is the most common component to fail and VERY easy to replace in Roamio (with something larger, better). The deal you got is very compelling – you should be satisfied with your decision and purchase.