ZNF regular Chucky seeks our assistance in choosing the right iOS IR remote solution for his situation…
I’ve always avoided Harmony universal remotes. I’ve never really liked the Harmony UI, in either the touchscreen or physical button incarnations. But now, with the variety of iOS based universal remotes available, I’m suddenly interested in getting myself a universal remote with a better UI.
In figuring out which remote to buy, I have specific needs, which may greatly vary from yours. I place a high degree of value on software that is easy to use on a daily basis, easy to customize, and easy to initially learn. I’m willing to “teach” the new remote my button codes by pointing old remotes at it. In short, I’m willing to spend 1 day setting up the new remote just the way I want in order to enjoy it the next 364 days of the year.
The hardware must be functional, with a minimum of hassles on a regular basis, but I’ll take good software over good hardware for this project.
Also, I rarely watch live TV, and prefer scheduling my DVR recordings from the massive real estate and fine control offered by desktop or laptop computers, so programming “discovery” is not high on my priorities.
Here are the devices I’m looking to control for my single room media center:
- TiVo HD DVR
- Mac Mini HTPC (Apple Remote commands intercepted by Sofa Control software.)
- Modern HDTV
- Antique Audio Receiver
Here is a comprehensive list of all the potential solutions I could find, starting with what seems the most attractive to me, and working my way down the list to the least appealing.
First up are the three solutions I’m seriously considering, (drum roll), The Contenders:
L5 Remote
Price: $40 from Amazon.
iOS App: L5 Remote
Hardware: small IR dongle for iOS dock connecter.
Pros:
- Absolutely perfect software from a UI perspective. You’ve got to try it to believe it. You can download the app for free and completely set up your remotes prior to purchasing the hardware. If I were designing iOS remote software from scratch, I’d come up with something quite close to this. Easy to intuitively learn. Easy to customize your setup. Truly admirable software.
- Cloud integration. Backup your remotes to the L5 servers. Download other pre-made remotes from the servers.
- Useful web support forum for getting answers to obscure questions.
- Low price.
Cons:
- Dealing with an IR dongle. (Though this is a small dongle.)
- Reports that dongle has limited range and power.
Notes:
The software is pretty much exactly what I have in mind. But the hardware worries me a bit. Still, if I were buying today, I’d buy this.
RedEye Remote System
Price: $150 from Amazon.
iOS App: RedEye
Hardware: AC wired IR blaster connected to WiFi network.
Pros:
- Plug-in IR blaster totally eliminates dongle, range, and battery worries.
- IR blaster doubles as docking station to charge your (non-iPod) iOS device’s battery.
- IR is controllable via web browser as well as via the iOS app, for more flexibility in usage.
Cons:
- High price, (though potentially worth it.)
- Difficult to fully test software without first buying hardware.
- AC wire to the IR blaster complicates media room layout.
Notes:
The hardware seems excellent, other than the high price. If I could combine the L5 software with the RedEye hardware, I’d be sold. But, of course, I can’t do that. Perhaps the software is better in practice than the sense I’m getting from playing with it sans hardware.
Re Remote
Price: $68 from Amazon.
iOS App: Re Universal Remote Control
Hardware: large IR dongle for iOS dock connecter.
Pros:
- Large IR dongle supposedly has better range and power than L5.
- Software offers fine control over button durations and delays for timing control of macros and other edge-case situations. May perhaps work in situations where the L5 software fails.
Cons:
- Dealing with IR dongle.
- Reports that the large IR dongle is fragile when connected.
- Software seems somewhat unintuitive, difficult to learn, and impossible to finely customize in the ways I’d prefer.
——
Next up are the ones I’m not currently seriously considering, (rimshot), The Pretenders:
iWavit Kit
Price: $100 from Amazon
iOS App: iWavit Flow
Hardware: IR dongle for iOS dock connecter, as well as some other gear.
Pros:
- Clever software provides for photorealistic replicas of actual remotes, as well as custom-build remotes.
Cons:
- Custom-build remote software seems quite buggy, and incredibly, includes a mandatory advertisement bar on something you’re paying $100 for. Additionally, the ad bar gets in the way of your use of the remote.
- Hardware setup and options are confusingly explained by iWavit website.
- No iPad app.
RedEye Mini
Price: $20 from Amazon.
iOS App: RedEye mini
Hardware: IR dongle for headphone jack.
Pros:
- The price is nice.
- Headphone IR dongle seems less clunky than dock connecter dongle.
Cons:
- Many reports of insufficient power and flexibility with IR dongle.
Peel Remote
Price: $99 from Amazon.
iOS App: Peel
Hardware: Clever battery-powered IR blaster operates on special low-power WiFi to allow it to go very easy on batteries.
Pros:
- The hardware sounds pretty wonderful. No AC wire to the IR blaster, yet won’t eat through huge amounts of batteries.
Cons:
- Software utterly insufficient for remote customization. Focused on discovery and social sharing.
- Peel can’t “learn” from existing remotes. If your remote isn’t in the database, you’re out of luck. A deal-breaker for me.
Gear4 UnityRemote
Price: $99 from Amazon.
iOS App: Unity Remote
Hardware: Battery-powered IR blaster operates on WiFi.
Cons:
- You must go over to the IR blaster and physically ‘wake it up’ every time you start using the remote to save batteries. That’s a deal-breaker for me.
- Software is inadequate for my needs. Lacks customizability.
——
So, does the ZNF commentariat have any suggestions or tips for me? Are you using any of these solutions? All feedback and experiences welcome.
Still think the Belkin Bluetooth puck is worth a look. Supposedly a former coworker of mine had an in and was going to get me a review sample. We shall see.
Peel has been advertising non-stop on SF Giants games this year. But, I find their commercials pretty bad in that they never really explain what Peel is/does. They make it out ot be more of a TV Guide app for your phone.
Does the L5 app launch automatically when you plug it in? That would be cool. I wish L5 had the form factor of the Peel so that you didn’t need the dongle.
And what is the Belkin puck thing?
“Peel has been advertising non-stop on SF Giants games this year. “
I read they have an insane clown posse of Venture Capital behind them. But they’re selling a cool technology, not a high-functioning iOS Universal Remote solution.
“I wish L5 had the form factor of the Peel so that you didn’t need the dongle.”
I wish the L5 software worked with any of the LAN IR blasters. I’m not a fan of the dongle idea.
Personally, I’d prefer the AC plugged in version of an IR blaster with the L5 software, but the Peel architecture does have some appeal. When you get right down to it, I’d likely even take the L5 software with the stupid Gear4 architecture over using the dongle…
My bad, it’s Griffin not Belkin and uses Dijit:
http://www.griffintechnology.com/beacon
“Does the L5 app launch automatically when you plug it in? That would be cool.”
I’m not sure. I’ve been vaguely assuming it doesn’t, but I don’t know.
I do know that L5 autorotates the screen when you plug in the dongle, which is nice. (Some of the dongle apps make you work upside down even when the dongle is unplugged.)
“My bad, it’s Griffin not Belkin and uses Dijit”
Yeah. That’s what Gear4 is selling, if I’m not mistaken.
Software uninterested in being a better Harmony Universal Remote, and a hardware architecture that I assume would be tragic in daily use. Bottom of my list. But I haven’t actually tried the product.
Actually, my bad. The Griffin and the Gear4 are two completely different products.
I left one off the list…
Glad I could help. ;)
“Actually, my bad. The Griffin and the Gear4 are two completely different products.”
I was confused because when you do an Amazon search on the Griffin Beacon, you get the Gear4 as your result. So the Griffin hardware is new to me.
However, I did end up somehow downloading the Dijit software, played with it a bit, and deemed it to not focus on Universal Remote tasks very much. I didn’t test it sufficiently to see if there are “good enough” software capabilities to be a Better Harmony.
At first glance, the Griffin hardware is actually pretty interesting, and might be the best of the bunch. The website says it’s Bluetooth connected, and eats through 4 AA batteries in 2 months. If correct, that means $15 in batteries a year, and manual labor every two months. Might be a better tradeoff than dealing with an AC cord.
Now I want the L5 software with the Griffin hardware…
With the Logitech Revue Google TV down to $200 and slated to receive Android Honeycomb 3.1, if they fleshed out their Harmony-esque functions it’d be pretty killer. Logitech provides an iPhone app and the IR blaster coverage from the Revue is pretty astounding. But I don’t think it offers true actions/macros or is designed to handle anything more than basic TV and audio.
OK. I played a bit more with the Dijit software, since I like the Griffin hardware, and I deem it not “good enough” to fulfill a customizable Harmony Universal purpose. It doesn’t seem to have any real customization, or even any access to reasonably full soft versions of existing remotes.
Which is too bad. Like I say, the Griffin hardware seems nice.
Next I’ll have to really try to get a sense of whether or not the RedEye software is “good enough”, since I could probably find a way to happily live with the AC charger / IR blaster concept.
Unfortunately, it seemed difficult to me to get a sense of the RedEye software without the hardware actually being in the room and talking to it. I’ll try a bit more research.
I’d really like to find a non-dongle solution that met my “good enough” standards for software UI. Otherwise, I’m leaning towards dealing with the dongle to be able to use the sweet L5 software.
“With the Logitech Revue Google TV down to $200 and slated to receive Android Honeycomb 3.1, if they fleshed out their Harmony-esque functions it’d be pretty killer. Logitech provides an iPhone app and the IR blaster coverage from the Revue is pretty astounding.”
Huh. So we’ve got killer hardware.
“But I don’t think it offers true actions/macros or is designed to handle anything more than basic TV and audio.”
I just downloaded the app, and I can’t do a single thing without a Revue on the network.
So you’ll have to drag that Revue out of the closet again if we’re curious enough to test whether it can function as a “good enough” iOS universal remote. But if your memory is correct, and they haven’t updated anything, perhaps it’d be a waste of time to even bother. Like everything Android, it’s a check back in a year situation, no?
Here’s what’s weird to me:
All the good, (or in iWavit’s case, interesting,) software is for dongle hardware. The L5 software is superb. The Re software is “good enough”.
On the other hand, all the good non-dongle hardware has unusable or seemingly unattractive software.
Shouldn’t the two camps cross-pollinate a bit? Talking via WiFi or Bluetooth is as easy to program as talking via a dongle…
It’s probably worth unpacking the Revue again… Logitech’s website does indicate Activity-based control. BUT I wonder if it’s just one activity – watch Google TV on my TV.
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/smartTV/accessories/devices/harmony-app-iphone-android#
I think Dijit and Peel will both continue to develop and expand their offerings. But of course you shouldn’t buy now based on what may be.
I picked up 2 of the the L5 remotes when Woot had them for $20. Its an interesting idea. The interface is decent, if you want to teach it. The one thing that I think is pretty terrible is trying to find existing layouts. I wanted to be able to download a Tivo remote and simply could not find it. It is simply a terrible search interface. Its even stranger than you have to use that same interface to find remotes you have uploaded. I think they need to have a smarter search interface, probably something that lets you login to their web site, find a remote, save it to your account and then grab it from the app.
It also won’t work for remote codes you don’t know — like the discrete input codes that I can get on my harmony but that the actual remote doesn’t have.
One other thing I found was that it doesn’t like learning buttons from (some) Tivo remotes. I couldn’t get it to recognize some of the codes from one of my old S2 remotes or a RCN-premier remote. I was able to learn from an old DTV Tivo remote I picked up on woot years ago, though.
What is it about the Harmony remotes that you don’t like? I own several of them and they perform the intended function (controlling you devices) much better that the options listed above. I don’t have any experience with the options you listed, but there’s no way I’d go full touch screen.
Is it the intial setup? It’s pretty easy, but even if you think it’s difficult, it not something you do often. I don’t see the setup on these being any better.
John
Appreciate hearing about these options but a dedicated harmony remote is the way to go.
I generally prefer physical buttons to a touchscreen. Back when I ran a HTPC, projector, Lutron lighting, etc a Harmony controlled it all rather well. Initial setup took some time and re-tweaking along the way, but it was certainly better than a hundred different remotes. But this was before the iPhone. Although I’m doubtful any of these solutions would exceed a Harmony.
“What is it about the Harmony remotes that you don’t like? … Is it the intial setup? It’s pretty easy, but even if you think it’s difficult, it not something you do often. I don’t see the setup on these being any better.”
I’m fine with an extensive initial setup process.
What I want is a fine degree of control over the final product. I want a UI I can design for myself, which the flexibility of good iOS software makes possible. If Harmony sold such a product, I’d want one, but I don’t know of any such product in their line. (Could be my ignorance.)
None of the physical Harmony remotes I’ve looked at have seemed easier in normal usage patterns than just juggling a couple of dedicated remotes. I don’t have a complicated setup, after all, and the TiVo HD Glo Peanut is an object of art…
“But this was before the iPhone. Although I’m doubtful any of these solutions would exceed a Harmony.”
I haven’t actually used any of these products, but Chucky’s Educated Guess™ is that the non-existent “solution” of L5 software with a reliable, non-dongle IR blaster would leave Harmony’s yet-to-be-announced next generation of products in the dust.
Of course, that solution is, indeed, non-existent. So, I’m thinking I should try putting up with the dongle in the short-term.
But iOS does indeed change the whole game here. Revolutionary change with the right software and hardware.
“I generally prefer physical buttons to a touchscreen.”
No doubt. The iOS solution would be supplementary. Finish off my TiVo program. Change the video input and start Plex, then switch to the Plex app. Turn off the TV, change audio input, and switch to Apple’s Remote app to play music. Etc, etc…
“The (L5) interface is decent, if you want to teach it.”
I’m fine with an extended initial setup process.
“The one thing that I think is pretty terrible is trying to find existing layouts. I wanted to be able to download a Tivo remote and simply could not find it.”
I found one easily. The software developer is constantly improving the software over time. The release notes are interesting.
Of course, I’ll re-implement my own TiVo interface if I get the L5. The TiVo doesn’t fit well on a small form-factor iOS device, so I was thinking I’d chop it up into three. One for choosing programming from lists. A second for playback. And a third for scheduling duties, with macros for things like “TiVo” + “2” to get to the To Do List. The Jump buttons make it easy to give options to move between your multiple soft-remotes.
“It also won’t work for remote codes you don’t know — like the discrete input codes that I can get on my harmony but that the actual remote doesn’t have.”
There is a way to input hex codes for a button via your account on the L5 website, though I don’t know how well this works in practice.
“One other thing I found was that it doesn’t like learning buttons from (some) Tivo remotes. I couldn’t get it to recognize some of the codes from one of my old S2 remotes or a RCN-premier remote.”
That would be my deal-breaker with the L5. If I bought it, and it couldn’t learn from all of my remotes, (or if I couldn’t find the hex codes for those buttons via remotecentral or some such source), I’d return it straight away. I need a learning remote that can actually learn.
“What I want is a fine degree of control over the final product. I want a UI I can design for myself, which the flexibility of good iOS software makes possible.”
Can you give me some examples of this “control” you’re seeking? From your device list above, there’s only so much you can do and I can’t think of something that the Harmony remotes couldn’t do with that setup.
I’ve got an iPod Touch and an iPad, so I’m truly interested if I’m missing out on something here. I do use my iOS (and Android and WebOS phones – to a lesser extent) devices to control my whole house music (using iTunes and Airport Expresses), but I don’t see them replacing my remotes for video and gaming.
“None of the physical Harmony remotes I’ve looked at have seemed easier in normal usage patterns than just juggling a couple of dedicated remotes.”
My measurement is WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor). To say that the Harmony remotes don’t have an easier usage pattern than a couple of dedicated remotes is just silly. My wife can control our most complicated room (the home theater) with a single button press.
“Watch a Movie”, “Watch TV”, “Play Wii”, “Play Xbox”, etc. It automatically controls the projector, TiVo, receiver, Xbox 360 (not the Wii), lighting, etc. Depending on the activity, the buttons on the remote are mapped to the correct devices automatically (and change depending on the activity).
“I don’t have a complicated setup, after all, and the TiVo HD Glo Peanut is an object of art…”
This is kinda my point. What are you trying to accomplish here? I’m all for geeking out with technology, but I’m just not seeing it here.
Good discussion…
John
Chucky,
I agree with your sentiments completely. I’ve been through a couple of Harmony remotes and after many attempts to tweak them they’ve never worked out. I actually have a Harmony One sitting next to my couch that I currently don’t use (a friend gave it to me) and I just couldn’t get it to do what I wanted, despite numerous frustration filled attempts to program it.
At one point I spent a lot of time with a $300+ Proto remote including hacking dedicated codes using a One For All remote (always good for that sort of thing if you can’t find another solution). Was great until I changed something but I never maintained it after that and now I think those are discontinued.
I have a Tivo remote I expect to use pretty much full time with occasional iOS access to handle other tasks (switch to Apple TV for music, or Wii to play games, etc). Wife has iPhone too so I would duplicate the setup for both. I didn’t even consider a dongle solution and instead picked up the RedEye some time back.
But… I never got around to getting it working (something about that baby crying in the background). Maybe this will motivate me to get back to it.
“Can you give me some examples of this “control” you’re seeking? From your device list above, there’s only so much you can do and I can’t think of something that the Harmony remotes couldn’t do with that setup.”
Sure. Two things.
1) Fine-grained control over exactly how my soft-remotes look, act, and interact with one another, down to the very last pixel, enabled by the beauty of good iOS software. This makes me happy, and it helps immensely with the WAF if I can eliminate everything extraneous from the UI other than what is needed for our purposes.
2) The big thing a Harmony Remote can’t do is run iOS apps. I’m already using the iOS Apple Remote app and the iOS Plex app to select programming. Now wouldn’t it be nice if that same iOS remote already in my hand could also:
– Handle power, video input, and audio input duties
– Launch and quit the Plex application on my Mac Mini HTPC
– Do a couple of other basic tasks on my Mac Mini HTPC
– Handle basic TiVo remote functionality if plans change
So, it’s one device to rule them all. The Apple Remote app, the Plex app, and the L5 app all sitting next to one another one the Home screen should be able to do everything in a way that a Harmony simply couldn’t. It’s the magic of iOS.
“I didn’t even consider a dongle solution and instead picked up the RedEye some time back. But… I never got around to getting it working (something about that baby crying in the background). Maybe this will motivate me to get back to it.”
For my own selfish reasons, I really do hope you do get back to it.
I’m curious if the RedEye software is “good enough” for the task at hand, as I do like their hardware. But I can’t seem to find a way to get a sense of how their software works without having the hardware in the room.
(Also, this might interest you: if I’ve read the specs correctly, if you put the crying baby into the RedEye cradle, it will mute and recharge. They don’t call it a cradle for nothing…)
“The Apple Remote app, the Plex app, and the L5 app all sitting next to one another on the Home screen”
Not to forget AirPlay and AirTunes.
iOS demands a good IR blaster solution…
My biggest problem with the current crop of Harmonies is that they’re ugly. The 800 series was my favorite.
Chucky, you need to check your email more often. We’ve got a RedEye review loaner on the way thanks to this post. I expect you to guide my analysis. :)
I heard from Peel’s PR rep this AM. If you recall, we previously gave them a look, and they wanted to convey that any device not in their database could be added within hours by getting in touch with support.
“Chucky, you need to check your email more often.”
Toldja I was intermittent on that front. But I do check the RSS comment feed.
Email now checked and replied…
“So, it’s one device to rule them all. The Apple Remote app, the Plex app, and the L5 app all sitting next to one another one the Home screen should be able to do everything in a way that a Harmony simply couldn’t. It’s the magic of iOS.”
Fair enough. Our use cases in this instance are definitely different. A remote, in my case, is an extension of my hand. I don’t want to have to look at it to use it. I don’t want to have to know which remote to pick up (or app to run). I just want it to “just work” so I can get to enjoying the show or movie. I want the interface I’m using to be on my 120″ screen, not on a little 3.5″ screen (or even the 9.7″ screen on my iPad). I’m not sure how running separate apps on a touch screen device is magical, but if that’s what will make you happy…
Have you thought about using an iPad instead? The increased screen real estate makes a world of a difference and portability shouldn’t be an issue sitting on your couch. The TiVo app is a good example (if not a little busy) of this. Another good example is the Remote App. It’s much more powerful and usuable on my iPad than my iPod Touch.
Or even better, an Android tablet. Imagine having a home screen dedicated to your remote functions. With widgets sitting right on the home screen, you’d never need to run apps and switch between them. Everything would be available on a single screen. I have no idea if these widgets exist yet or not though.
John
“A remote, in my case, is an extension of my hand.”
I agree entirely. It’s why I called my TiVo HD Glo Peanut an object of art. And it’s why I see an iOS Universal Remote as supplementary to my physical remotes.
I’ve only got a few remotes, and the TiVo HD Glo Peanut already has a few “learning” buttons. I don’t have a Lutron lighting system to deal with. So juggling a couple of remotes covers most of my bases.
And most of your time, I remain in the same “mode”. It’s only when I’d want “mode” flexibility that I’d reach for the iOS device.
The other important use case scenario is when you already want to use the iOS device for the iTunes Remote app, Plex app, AirTunes, or AirPlay. Then, having a Universal Remote a button click away is a pretty sweet scenario.
I’ve avoided Harmony Remotes because of this kind of logic. Why not just use my Peanut and one or two more instead? It’s a nicer experience. But, like I say, iOS Universal Remotes are revolutionary for my kinds of use scenarios…
“Have you thought about using an iPad instead?”
First, it’s a different animal in lots and lots of ways. Tons of trade-offs to the positive and negative versus the small form-factor iOS devices as a Universal Remote. Likely, both are desirable. Most of the iOS Universal Remote apps cover both form-factors. Second, I’m a proud late-adopter of tech. I’ll buy very few things still at Rev2, and usuable tablets are still at Rev2. I prefer to wait for a market to shake out a bit, and then adopt aggressively.
“Or even better, an Android tablet.”
Being a proud late-adopter, I’d guesstimate I’ll get my first Android tablet in 2014 or 2015…
“Second, I’m a proud late-adopter of tech. I’ll buy very few things still at Rev2, and usuable tablets are still at Rev2. I prefer to wait for a market to shake out a bit, and then adopt aggressively.”
The $350 price point for the version 1 iPad is what made me jump. It really is a good device at that price point. I had no want or need for an iPad, but the price was right. It was a good purchase and sees a good bit of use. My HP Mini’s (netbook) hard drive is starting to make noises, so I figured this might be able to replace it. It won’t, but it is a good companion device.
The v1 iPad will hold me for a little while. I’m still not convinced that the form factor is what I really want. But when I compare it to my iPod Touch (latest revision – won it in a drawing I didn’t even know I entered) it is a much better device for around the house.
For the use case you describe, the last gen iPad would probably be a perfect fit. If you can find one for the right price (Apple still has some for sale) you won’t be sorry.
John
Chucky,
My plans were probably never to put the iPhone in the RedEye dock. I’d just place it someplace it can blast everything from that isn’t ugly, and leave it there. Not sure why there’s really a dock at all, and would be cheaper without. I’d actually prefer something that had an output for IR blasters that I could place over in my rack, but there doesn’t seem to be anybody offering that sort of thing.
Glenn
“My plans were probably never to put the iPhone in the RedEye dock. I’d just place it someplace it can blast everything from that isn’t ugly, and leave it there. Not sure why there’s really a dock at all, and would be cheaper without.”
No doubt, Glenn. Though, I can certainly imagine a sizable minority of use cases who would prefer the integrated cradle.
A choice of the RedEye at $150 with the cradle and $100 w/out would be the best of all possible worlds.
Of course, putting the IR blaster far away will only work if the IR blaster is powerful enough. If the blaster needs to be relatively close to the equipment, then the AC cord could become problematic in many use cases, which is why the more clever battery-powered IR blasters do have some potential appeal.
Again, from my selfish POV, you ought to put the crying baby in the RedEye cradle so you can have the time to test the IR blaster’s range, as well as testing whether or not the software is “good enough” to handle most jobs…