19 thoughts on “TiVo Said to Be in Merger Talks With Rovi”
It’s come down to the only future revenue option being as a patent troll.
Parts of TiVo (particularly their data/analytics arm) make sense for Rovi. I guess TiVo’s growing business of providing hardware and software to MSOs does too. But given that Rovi is a purely B2B company, TiVo’s struggling retail DVR business wouldn’t seem to be a good fit for Rovi. Another sign that it may not be long for this world…
Ugh. The migration to Rovi’s guide service was the final nail for Windows Media Center; not loving this news.
This deal has crash written all around it. Activist investor is never good. Tivo or not Rovi doesn’t have a bright future. Tivo stockholders runaway !
Goodbye dear Tivo.
For those of you not linked into my amazing Twitter feed ;) you might have missed my christening of the new company (should it come to fruition)… as Patent Trollvi!
Tivo — a superior product for 15+ years, saddled with some of the worst management you can imagine.
I wonder if someone else may step in and buy TiVo just to block this sale. As a strategic move only. A combined 6,000 patents has by one company has to raise some eyebrows.
It’s a risky strategy. Their only profitable patent thus far has been the Time Warp which expires in 2018. And you have to wonder if their biggest customer, Virgin, might move to their own Liberty Horizon boxes at some point.
Frustrating; so much potential left unfulfilled.
Very sad. I cut the cord years ago, but I’m still very fond of TiVo… it was life-changing back in 1999.
Agreed, activist investor is almost never good. It is sad that considering the success of the Channle Master DVR and “Magnavox” doubling down in its own DVR with (or trpiling down) with THREE models, including one with a HDD for recording and transfer (like the older TiVo model) set for sale later this year, TiVo seems to have never gotten it right in that area. Our only hope is that Rovi, if they do merge with TiVo, really try to get TiVo in that OTA DVR business. However, Rovi really isn’t a hardware company with a retail presence. Sadly, I think Rovi just wants TiVo’s data to add to theirs. If Rovi and TiVo do merge, I really belive the TiVo retail business is dead, and that Rovi having no relationship with current retail TiVo owners will likely feel just fine no longer spending and money keeping our retail TiVo DVR functional. I really do think Rovi would just shut us off. We shall have to see.
That’s my biggest concern… I don’t want to lose TiVo Retail, but I also don’t want my existing TiVo Roamio Plus and 3 minis to become bricks in a year… I’m hopeful that, whatever the solution is, TiVo will continue to receive updates, guide info, etc for many years to come.
I really wish Apple or Google would buy TiVo, and integrate it as part of their home automation solutions, use it as a media hub, etc. Maybe Rovi comes in with the noble intent of rebuilding the business, and maintaining the small, but loyal, fan base… Google basically supplements Nest, and hasn’t turned the product into an extension of Android, and that is what I am hoping comes from this purchase. I’m not holding my breath.
My (reasonable) guess is that they’ll continue supporting existing devices for a couple years with guide data because it’s free money. But there will never, ever, be another consumer-oriented TiVo device. It’s the end, basically.
The only hope for TiVo customers would be for a Google, Echo, Apple, Microsoft to step in and buy TiVo to block this sale as a strategic move for some reason. But I give that about a less than 1% chance. If any of those companies were interested they would bought TiVo many many years ago.
Maybe Samsung? Isn’t TiVo currently suing Samnsung? With tivos cash rich balance sheet, and the savings from a lawsuit and potential loss? Maybe Samnsung would like to block this from happening. Maybe a TiVo/Rovi giant patent portfolio might be enough to get them to pull the trigger. Again, very slim chance.
Maybe TiVo leaked this news to NY Times to get other players possibly interested.
I would rule out Google. They already bought Sage TV years ago and use it in their Google Fiber DVRs.
I do not know enough about Echo (Echostar?) to comment other than the bad blood between them and Tivio.
MS is in the process of giving the XBox One DVR capability and still have their WMC knowledge base to leverage. So I would rule them out.
Apple would make a good fit for Tivo. It is large enough to buy, develop, support, and market it properly. Apple also wanted to get into the TV service game but was unable to pull it off. Tivo solves the TV service side of the equation and Apple solves the streaming side of the equation. Promote it as a media hub and server. Give it a name like “Apple Media Core”. Emphasize that it is the center of your media life. Basically the new Apple TV and a Tivo Bolt having a baby together. It needs to have the capabilities of both integrated fully together plus be able to serve that content anywhere in and out of the home.
It needs to have the ability to store and serve iTunes content along with TV content. It also needs to tightly integrate with video services.
Example: You are scheduling to record a movie the DVR would let you know that it is already available on a video subscription service you currently have.
It should also work in reverse if something on a video service is about to expire but available to record it would warn you and have the option to record it automatically.
If a recording fails give the user the option to directly buy it from the screen that let you know the recording failed.
Give it the ability to switch from recording a season to buying a season.
Keep the the three tiers of DVRs: OTA only, OTA / cable, and cable only.
Tivo stream would be integrated into all units.
Offer different sized HDDs of each tier: 1TB, 2TB, 4TB, whatever the max is (3.5 in
HDDs).
I would keep the flash storage for apps so HDD space will not effect performance but give the user the option to move it the HDD if flash space is short.
It should be able to directly access shared drives, folders, and NAS.
Tivo Minis would become Apple TV Plus. It would replace the 64GB model. The DVR would be able to server apps as well as videos and allow for saved games and settings across devices.
“my existing TiVo Roamio Plus and 3 minis to become bricks in a year”
“that they’ll continue supporting existing devices for a couple years with guide data because it’s free money”
Keep in mind the only way Replay’s owner got out of its guide obligation was to file liquidation bankruptcy.
Replay’s then-owner had said it was going to discontinue guide data years earlier but got so many legal threats that it stopped charging monthly customers, providing free guide data for every box for something like 3 years before it finally liquidated (even today there are easy work-arounds to serve guide data to a Replay DVR.)
Rovi is likely stuck with providing lifetime Tivo customers with guide data until something as equally drastic happens.
Xzyl, what seems logical in terms of retail synergy may have limited business merit. Having said that, Samsung is a more interesting suitor – they sell cable boxes to MSOs and have a retail business, like TiVo. But where’s the value and what’s the end game? CableCARD is all but dead and a replacement has yet to be decided on. The bulk of TiVo’s value comes from their Time Warp patent (which accounts for $1b in licensing and settlements) and their Virgin customer base, both of which are at risk.
I agree with Bill that guide data would be delivered for years should they merge with Rovi and 12 months later say they’re done with retail. However, apps would decay and die, there’d be no software updates, Skip Mode would be retired, etc.
Jack’s theory is interesting, especially in light of the Samsung suit. At one point, I think some speculated DISH could just buy TiVo instead of settling but there was some sort of poison pill. Who knows. A few years back there was a rumor TiVo and set-top maker Pace were flirting.
Interesting theory… TiVo’s guide data contract with Tribune may not have been renewed, helping push them towards Rovi (who provides guide data, among other things):
It’s come down to the only future revenue option being as a patent troll.
Parts of TiVo (particularly their data/analytics arm) make sense for Rovi. I guess TiVo’s growing business of providing hardware and software to MSOs does too. But given that Rovi is a purely B2B company, TiVo’s struggling retail DVR business wouldn’t seem to be a good fit for Rovi. Another sign that it may not be long for this world…
Ugh. The migration to Rovi’s guide service was the final nail for Windows Media Center; not loving this news.
This deal has crash written all around it. Activist investor is never good. Tivo or not Rovi doesn’t have a bright future. Tivo stockholders runaway !
Goodbye dear Tivo.
For those of you not linked into my amazing Twitter feed ;) you might have missed my christening of the new company (should it come to fruition)… as Patent Trollvi!
https://twitter.com/davezatz/status/713011640191598592
Tivo — a superior product for 15+ years, saddled with some of the worst management you can imagine.
I wonder if someone else may step in and buy TiVo just to block this sale. As a strategic move only. A combined 6,000 patents has by one company has to raise some eyebrows.
It’s a risky strategy. Their only profitable patent thus far has been the Time Warp which expires in 2018. And you have to wonder if their biggest customer, Virgin, might move to their own Liberty Horizon boxes at some point.
Frustrating; so much potential left unfulfilled.
Very sad. I cut the cord years ago, but I’m still very fond of TiVo… it was life-changing back in 1999.
Agreed, activist investor is almost never good. It is sad that considering the success of the Channle Master DVR and “Magnavox” doubling down in its own DVR with (or trpiling down) with THREE models, including one with a HDD for recording and transfer (like the older TiVo model) set for sale later this year, TiVo seems to have never gotten it right in that area. Our only hope is that Rovi, if they do merge with TiVo, really try to get TiVo in that OTA DVR business. However, Rovi really isn’t a hardware company with a retail presence. Sadly, I think Rovi just wants TiVo’s data to add to theirs. If Rovi and TiVo do merge, I really belive the TiVo retail business is dead, and that Rovi having no relationship with current retail TiVo owners will likely feel just fine no longer spending and money keeping our retail TiVo DVR functional. I really do think Rovi would just shut us off. We shall have to see.
That’s my biggest concern… I don’t want to lose TiVo Retail, but I also don’t want my existing TiVo Roamio Plus and 3 minis to become bricks in a year… I’m hopeful that, whatever the solution is, TiVo will continue to receive updates, guide info, etc for many years to come.
I really wish Apple or Google would buy TiVo, and integrate it as part of their home automation solutions, use it as a media hub, etc. Maybe Rovi comes in with the noble intent of rebuilding the business, and maintaining the small, but loyal, fan base… Google basically supplements Nest, and hasn’t turned the product into an extension of Android, and that is what I am hoping comes from this purchase. I’m not holding my breath.
My (reasonable) guess is that they’ll continue supporting existing devices for a couple years with guide data because it’s free money. But there will never, ever, be another consumer-oriented TiVo device. It’s the end, basically.
The only hope for TiVo customers would be for a Google, Echo, Apple, Microsoft to step in and buy TiVo to block this sale as a strategic move for some reason. But I give that about a less than 1% chance. If any of those companies were interested they would bought TiVo many many years ago.
Maybe Samsung? Isn’t TiVo currently suing Samnsung? With tivos cash rich balance sheet, and the savings from a lawsuit and potential loss? Maybe Samnsung would like to block this from happening. Maybe a TiVo/Rovi giant patent portfolio might be enough to get them to pull the trigger. Again, very slim chance.
Maybe TiVo leaked this news to NY Times to get other players possibly interested.
I would rule out Google. They already bought Sage TV years ago and use it in their Google Fiber DVRs.
I do not know enough about Echo (Echostar?) to comment other than the bad blood between them and Tivio.
MS is in the process of giving the XBox One DVR capability and still have their WMC knowledge base to leverage. So I would rule them out.
Apple would make a good fit for Tivo. It is large enough to buy, develop, support, and market it properly. Apple also wanted to get into the TV service game but was unable to pull it off. Tivo solves the TV service side of the equation and Apple solves the streaming side of the equation. Promote it as a media hub and server. Give it a name like “Apple Media Core”. Emphasize that it is the center of your media life. Basically the new Apple TV and a Tivo Bolt having a baby together. It needs to have the capabilities of both integrated fully together plus be able to serve that content anywhere in and out of the home.
It needs to have the ability to store and serve iTunes content along with TV content. It also needs to tightly integrate with video services.
Example: You are scheduling to record a movie the DVR would let you know that it is already available on a video subscription service you currently have.
It should also work in reverse if something on a video service is about to expire but available to record it would warn you and have the option to record it automatically.
If a recording fails give the user the option to directly buy it from the screen that let you know the recording failed.
Give it the ability to switch from recording a season to buying a season.
Keep the the three tiers of DVRs: OTA only, OTA / cable, and cable only.
Tivo stream would be integrated into all units.
Offer different sized HDDs of each tier: 1TB, 2TB, 4TB, whatever the max is (3.5 in
HDDs).
I would keep the flash storage for apps so HDD space will not effect performance but give the user the option to move it the HDD if flash space is short.
It should be able to directly access shared drives, folders, and NAS.
Tivo Minis would become Apple TV Plus. It would replace the 64GB model. The DVR would be able to server apps as well as videos and allow for saved games and settings across devices.
“my existing TiVo Roamio Plus and 3 minis to become bricks in a year”
“that they’ll continue supporting existing devices for a couple years with guide data because it’s free money”
Keep in mind the only way Replay’s owner got out of its guide obligation was to file liquidation bankruptcy.
Replay’s then-owner had said it was going to discontinue guide data years earlier but got so many legal threats that it stopped charging monthly customers, providing free guide data for every box for something like 3 years before it finally liquidated (even today there are easy work-arounds to serve guide data to a Replay DVR.)
Rovi is likely stuck with providing lifetime Tivo customers with guide data until something as equally drastic happens.
Xzyl, what seems logical in terms of retail synergy may have limited business merit. Having said that, Samsung is a more interesting suitor – they sell cable boxes to MSOs and have a retail business, like TiVo. But where’s the value and what’s the end game? CableCARD is all but dead and a replacement has yet to be decided on. The bulk of TiVo’s value comes from their Time Warp patent (which accounts for $1b in licensing and settlements) and their Virgin customer base, both of which are at risk.
I agree with Bill that guide data would be delivered for years should they merge with Rovi and 12 months later say they’re done with retail. However, apps would decay and die, there’d be no software updates, Skip Mode would be retired, etc.
Jack’s theory is interesting, especially in light of the Samsung suit. At one point, I think some speculated DISH could just buy TiVo instead of settling but there was some sort of poison pill. Who knows. A few years back there was a rumor TiVo and set-top maker Pace were flirting.
Interesting theory… TiVo’s guide data contract with Tribune may not have been renewed, helping push them towards Rovi (who provides guide data, among other things):
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10840818#post10840818