Last week, cypherstream tipped us off to all sorts of details on the RCN-branded TiVo Premiere, posted by a company rep and beta testers on DSLReports.
Come Summer, RCN will offer TiVo Premiere hardware “rentals” in lieu of the generic DVR. ($20/mo?) As such, one would hope a cable-co issued and supported box would result in fewer CableCARD annoyances. At the very least, this will be the first TiVo to feature video on demand services direct from a cable provider (powered by SeaChange)… provided one also subscribes to RCN Internet services. Unfortunately (or is that fortunately?) RCN’s offering will launch with the original 10 year old TiVo UI.
We are launching on the classic UI, this was done for a couple of reasons, Time to market and stability. The new HDUI is wonderful but we based all development to start early against the classic UI. The goal is to roll out the HDUI by end of Q3 across all markets.
It certainly appears that this has much more momentum than the moribund Comcast-TiVo initiative. However, in light of the HD UI’s current state and given TiVo’s historical development pace (slow), I wouldn’t bank on that Q3 target.
“Unfortunately (or is that fortunately?) RCN’s offering with launch with the original 10 year old TiVo UI.”
Fortunately.
I almost wonder if Comcast should abandon the Tivo on Motorola and simply use real Tivo’s with the Seachange app. just like RCN.
Then maybe they could be quicker to market with a “Comcast Tivo”.
I keep going back to that and wonder if it’s a tru2way complexity that prevents it. What’s RCN running on the headend? If they could make it work, they’d have to restructure their deal to accommodate TiVo-provided hardware instead of retrofitting Motorola boxes. Perhaps that is already underway as part of the tru2way work Rogers has mentioned.
I’ll Ask the Internets™:
Anyone know if RCN VOD will work with “normal” TiVo’s? Does it do so already?
Chucky, it won’t. This is custom developed/configured and also requires that upstream communication through their cable modem to pull it off. The question is can tru2way and an external DOCCIS 3 modem do something similar in a Comcast environment? I know we have at least one SeaChange employee reading… perhaps he can shed some light on this. Then again, he might have to blow his cover.
No, RCN VOD only works with the RCN Tivo Premiere box. My friend just got one installed in DC. He said that works well. I live just out of the servicable area, but my lease is up soon and i am leading to moving into a RCN serviceable address. Helps that the job is closer too. ;)
FYI A few hours after posting, I discovered that RCN is now shipping these units to anyone who asks in DC. EngadgetHD wrote it up and here’s the RCN link with details.
Isn’t the Premiere retail and RCN hardware the same? It seems like TiVo would be hard at work to find a way to get the RCN VOD to work with regular retail units. Why spend $700 ($299 box + $399 lifetime) on a lifetime TiVo unit when you can have the same functions with the benefit of VOD for only $20 a month? That would require 35 months for anyone to break even! Even sillier for people that only pay month to month or yearly.
Yeah, the economics are entirely different, on a number of levels, when going through a service provider. And if the drive fails or a customer is otherwise unhappy, the unit can be swapped or service canceled like any other “cable” box I would assume.
“Chucky, it won’t. This is custom developed/configured and also requires that upstream communication through their cable modem to pull it off.”
See, this confuses me.
Netflix is a custom developed/configured and also requires upstream communication, but TiVo could just roll that out through a software update.
RCN doesn’t require different hardware out of the TiVo box, does it? Why is RCN any different than Netflix? Is the issue that there needs to be a port in the TiVo that talks to the cable modem?
I can understand perfectly if this is a marketing/licensing issue, but I’m confused if it is a technical issue…
Well I’m imagining that there’s a server in the headend at RCN that the Tivo talks to. Let’s call it vod.rcn.com for simple sakes. This server has an IP address accessible to RCN cable modem subscribers. It also has another interface that talks to the real Seachange VOD system, which in turn is what handles the actual video playback and trick play. This server just bridges that gap.
So the Tivo Seachange app says “Hey vod.rcn.com, what kinda shows do you have for me”
vod.rcn.com says “Oh here’s my list [long table of contents]”
Tivo formats this data and when the user selects it, the system knows to say “hey vod.rcn.com, I want to watch this episode of Mad Men”
vod.rcn.com says “Ok, your show is playing on RF Ch 85, MPEG PID 3, send me periodic heartbeats so I know your still watching!”
Tivo says “Ok!” and every 30 seconds or so sends “I’m still watching!” just so the session is freed if the customer with the Tivo has a power outage. You wouldn’t want the headend playing the video to no one.
If it works another way, please feel free to enlighten us all.
For Comcast (or anyone else) to do this, they need:
1) A compatible Seachange VOD system
2) The gateway server that bridges the Tivo to the Seachange VOD via IP.
3) Some kind of agreement with Tivo
4) Maintenance agreements with Tivo and Seachange to keep the apps updated and running smoothly past all official tivo updates.
@cypherstream I follow the basics of what you’re saying. My confusion is to why a “normal” TiVo box can’t do this following a software upgrade.
Is the issue technical, or is it marketing/licensing?
Probably all of the above. The business/marketing angle is cemented in my mind, as a TiVo rep states RCN-issued boxes will not have access to Netflix and Amazon VOD.
“Probably all of the above. The business/marketing angle is confirmed, as a TiVo rep states RCN-issued boxes will not have access to Netflix and Amazon VOD.”
That’s nuts, IMHO.
I forgive TiVo for a lot of sins that others crucify them for. But their whole brand, and the main reason I’m an evangelist, is that TiVo is an “open solution”. They’re missing an opportunity to bring that brand to a new place and enhance it.
I can understand RCN wanting to limit the TiVo boxes they rent, but it should be in both parties’ interests to allow “normal” TiVo boxes to just hook in to the service, no?
I assume the Tivo units that RCN is distributing are essentially identical to retail units, but they are probably flagged in some way, and have some preconfiguration, that a regular Tivo wouldn’t have. So they work, and the regular Tivo doesn’t. Sure you could install that application software and allow it to be configured and stuff but they don’t offer that. If they’re just going to rent them to people like a regular cable co DVR then it doesn’t really matter. I don’t need to own my Tivo if they’ll just rent it to me.
Yes I assume the cypherstream analysis is roughly correct. And yes a lot of this would normally occur over the video subsystem upstream carrier and would be unique to Motorola or Cisco and all that. Using IP makes it work without any of that stupid requirement. And yes without tru2way, which is a good thing.
I assume Comcast and Time Warner don’t WANT to offer Tivo units. I assume they’ve talked and Tivo wants more, either up front or per month, than Comcast or TW are willing to give them, end of story. Not sure what it is about RCN that they managed to strike a deal, but they did. I wouldn’t hold your breath for a similar offering from Comcast or TW unless the FCC forces it to happen.
I agree, I wish they could roll out a fully functional TiVo box. However, in business you often make comprimises. Purists don’t get too far unless they have serious market share that TiVo does not have. TiVo needs numbers and the RCN deal is a great way to get boxes out there and to create more fans! While we won’t have NetFlix and Amazon, there’s enough of the TiVo experience there for it to be a win (I understand that MRV will be there from TivoJerry).
This is great R&D for TiVo. Is the VOD video stream coming down the video pipe or the data pipe? This should be interesting. CableLabs has to hate this trial.
“I agree, I wish they could roll out a fully functional TiVo box. However, in business you often make comprimises. Purists don’t get too far unless they have serious market share that TiVo does not have. TiVo needs numbers and the RCN deal is a great way to get boxes out there and to create more fans! While we won’t have NetFlix and Amazon, there’s enough of the TiVo experience there for it to be a win”
To clarify:
I understand perfectly from a business standpoint why the RCN-owned and rented boxes are going to be limited.
What I don’t understand from a business standpoint is why the boxes TiVo sells to end-users are going to be constrained from picking up on RCN VOD.
RCN is probably keeping a large portion of the monthly service fee in exchange for higher “up-front” payments. RCN can also market the TiVo Experience to their existing and potential customers with free “VoD” promotions that no current provider can match (save Comcast in New England). Free VoD would prove more beneficial to many customers over Netflix. RCN can also market the savings by choosing them as your video provider, and TiVo Availability without a $300+ upfront cost. $20 seems steep, but at a ~$17/month price (or bundled deal for new subs), I would seriously consider RCN+TiVo versus TiVo by itself. The way TiVo conducts their business (no M-CARD in M-Mode support despite teasing it AFTER the product shipped some 4 months later!) leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I don’t want to commit long term to them. The day Apple gets serious about a DVR, TiVo is done.
M-Card in M-Mode for Series3 subs.
@andy
The video data for VOD still comes over the cable, on whatever frequency its assigned just like it would for a non-Tivo DVR. The difference is that Tivo can ask for the catalog and can request the VOD transmission, and find out what frequency to tune to via the Internet, instead of doing this using an upstream cable modem.
@Dissapointed
If I can transfer shows from one Tivo to another (it appears I can) and they support Tivo2Go (it appears they do) then I wouldn’t miss the Amazon/Netflix stuff much. I would rather have access to the free VOD stuff I already pay for. I can always get access to that stuff other ways (I have an Apple TV though).
Just got off the phone with RCN. It’s not $20 a month. It is $20 a month on top of what you currently pay. So right now I have an HD/DVR box for $17 a month and they said it would cost $37 a month for the Tivo. A little ridiculous if you ask me