Via regulatory filings, Steve Donohue has turned up a new Samsung DVR. Given its specs, including Zigbee and MoCA 2.0, this set-top is presumably destined for a MSO partner like Time Warner Cable. However, possibly more interesting is the box turned up by tipster Alex D on Flickr.
Pictured above, the Samsung “Smart Cable DVR” looks to be a retail product and the successor or up-sell to the Smart Media Player introduced in 2013. Whereas the Player tuned a single cable channel, this newer product is a 4-tuner DVR. Further, as an app platform, Samsung touts universal search capabilities, à la TiVo, and by leveraging their broader consumer electronics product line, the Smart DVR also optionally integrates Samsung’s wireless audio system.
But here’s the rub. Beyond knowing nothing of pricing, these photos were taken at the annual Cable Show… last spring. So it’s possible this product may never ship. It’s also possible the solution is being rethought given retail CableCARD uncertainty and the FCC’s newly formed post-CableCARD committee… of which Samsung is a member.
This just strenghthens my belief to stay with Tivo. Like them or not, they are the only option if you want a Fios/Cable: universal search and OTT in one package. Let alone being able to take most content on the go. Outside of the cable/satellite/telcos, no one else can even offer that and they don’t do it as well as Tivo, in my opinion.
It’s about time that Tivo had some competition. That can only make things better. The Roamio keeps delivering new features and has made me very happy. It almost never misses a recording unlike the creaky TW 8300 it replaced.
“This just strenghthens my belief to stay with Tivo.”
You ought to at least try the Samsung “Smart Cable DVR”. Ever since I’ve received mine from Amazon, I’ve been impressed by both the ergonomic remote, eliminating that uncomfortable peanut thing with too few buttons, and the convenient availability of all our voice conversations on our public Samsung web page. Just last week, I settled an argument with my S.O. by playing back the disputed conversation for her. (Her friends and co-workers had already listened to it and pointed it out to her, but she didn’t admit it to me until I found the evidence.)
I will stick with my TiVo although TiVo should add zigbee and zwave. Is there a chance TiVo DVR’s will enter the home automation game? Seems like a natural fit for visable videocam dvr storage, monitoring, and just overall control of the house from your TV screen and remote. And with many people already paying subscription service fees it would be another thing to help sell to subscriptions for more users.
Not with the current leadership and business approach… They continue to cut R&D and have focused their free cash on stock buyback versus those sorts of expansions.
Dave that does not sound promising in any regard…
“It’s about time that Tivo had some competition”
Maybe the reason for this is because the market for local DVR service in general is being swept clean by OTT and on demand streaming as the future of TV shifts toward “Sling TV type services”. Most of the current DVR competitors(which as you stated are few) now seemingly are shifting to marketing OTA recording paired with streaming netflix/amazon subscribers. With higher broadband specs and the speed bar now raising; streaming HD content seems to be the future and in turn is where all the R&D money is being spent. This explains TiVo’s cuts on R&D (Kindof) but does not explain why they can’t explore other expansions within their current service such as Home Automation(which is obviously a huge battle ground for developers.)
I successfully use Windows Media Center with a Ceton 4 tuner card and have all of the OTT streaming capabilities of TiVO minus a monthly guide fee. Only charge that I pay is $5 per month to Verizon for the Cable Card rental.
“Dave (reduced R&D) does not sound promising in any regard…”
Meh. Double meh. Very mature product category. And they’re already shipping the best product line they’ve ever produced, by a reasonably wide margin. Not to mention that despite reduced R&D spending, they still managed to just R&D a software upgrade (OnePass) that I see as the most revolutionary advance in the DVR space since the DVR was introduced.
And FWIW, I’d be horrified if they started integrating something like the IoT into their DVR’s. I mean, seriously, phones and tablets aren’t enough? Who in their right minds wants to muck up their lean-back viewing experience with their Smart Oven’s status? (Other than MSO’s, of course, who will probably want to achieve some kind of lock-in to monetize.) It’s just the wrong tool for the problem.
Of course, it’d be awfully nice if TiVo could find a way to communicate incredibly complicated info like whether or not the new rev Mini has an RF receiver. But that’s not an R&D spending problem…
The “DVR” may be mature, and TiVo is perhaps the finest, yet these set-tops are also something of a commodity – so I’d think TiVo would want to expand their business to stay healthy and relevant. How they do it is of course up for debate, but they’ve clearly put the majority of their chickens in the MSO basket as a software and services provider (with the majority of their cash into a stock buyback program). I’m obviously a satisfied customer, but have come to terms with their narrow focus and current business priorities.
Having said that, I stumbled upon a newer TIVo voice control patent application just the other day … speaking (ha) of RF remotes. However, it’s probably easier to build that functionality into the iPhone or Android app.
“I successfully use Windows Media Center with a Ceton 4 tuner card and have all of the OTT streaming capabilities of TiVO minus a monthly guide fee”
And minus the extender ability. And no the 360 doesn’t count, try streaming a mkv file to that. Sure it can work, but how nice is it? And the WAF on something like that is what drove me to SageTV. Which worked, until I got a couple copy-once flags on some channels. Now it’s back to Tivo. Plus with lifetime on my Roamio, I don’t have a guide fee either. I know I paid for it, it’s all sematics.
George S., I stream MKV files to my XBox360 on a regular basis. I let the PC do the transcoding and it works just great. I installed Media Browser server on PC with Media Browser Classic plug-in in WMC and it works fantastically well. There are other options available as well to accomplish the task.
My wife spend a whole of 20 minutes getting used to WMC and has no issues with either WMC on PC or XBox 360 WMC extender.
Copy-once or copy-never is also a non-issue with Windows Media Center. We have HBO and can record to our hearts content everything.
“I’m obviously a satisfied customer, but have come to terms with their narrow focus and current business priorities.”
I go further. I applaud the narrow focus. Look at how Apple managed to completely muck up their essentially perfect OS X by trying to iOS-ify it. That may (or may not) be good for their stockholders, but it sucks for their consumers that they abandoned that particular narrow focus where they were utterly excelling.
Just keeping making kickass physical DVR’s that deal with the single-purpose function of lean-back and mobile device viewing, which given the maturity of the product category, shouldn’t require heavy R&D spending. (For example, managing the 4K transition shouldn’t require heavy R&D spending, and neither did OnePass.) Keep the stockholders mollified by sending ’em cash. KISS. When Google wires up fibre-to-the-home in rural Idaho in 10 years and kills the multicast & DVR, it’ll be time to spend on R&D again.
But in the meantime, I don’t want my floor wax and my dessert topping to come in the same can…
I used WMC several years back for about a year and I really liked the interface and all, but I didn’t want to deal with computer problems for watching tv when they inevitably come. I know it can be very stable but with Tivo, I just set it and forget it Plus, once Microsoft sold WMC to Ericcson, I knew it was basically and end of life product. I like the Tivo Roamio/Xbox One combo better…let the Roamio handle the Fios tv experience because I just want it to work ALMOST all the time and every time and the Xbox One can handle the Blu Ray movies: Skype and any OTT content that I can’t get through the Roamio yet.
I’m on my 3rd DVR, Replay tv, TW SA 8300, and now the Roamio. I can’t see needing another as more content moves online. Tivo keeps adding features, Time Warner never did…
I’ve used media center for years as a backup for the 8300, but it is just so problematic and it’s really not supported anymore. We’ll see what happens with Windows 10, but don’t hold your breath.
Ideally I would like to get a 4-6 tuners CableCARD ready DVR running Android TV for OTT and ability to stream to Android TV clients without paying a monthly/annual/lifetime fee for the guide access. That would be a product I’d be willing to shell some $$$ for.
Even if the above Samsung Smart DVR does ever materialize (which I doubt will ever happen) its “Smart” part would still be Samsung proprietary. With Android TV there would be quite a lot of options in regards to the 3rd party, OTT content/options.
Greg-I had ReplayTV for a few years about ten years ago (still have the boxes in the basement)! They were great! Unfortunately, after they were sold to DirectTV, I knew that it was an EOL product and would never become an HD product (which was a must for me). I’ll always want a dvr so that I can skip add, if I want to (adds will probably never go completely away) More content is moving online but I don’t think ALL content will. I don’t see broadcast or premium content moving online anytime soon for various reasons. Since MS doesn’t own WMC anymore and is still spending resources on WMC support and the guide data, I would be a littly surprised if Microsoft offered an upgrade path for WMC in Windows 10. They made you people pay extra to get WMC with Windows 8!
Xela19115, I agree with you wholeheartedly, Samsungs content OTT content and interface will probably be just like their OTT content and app interface is on their televisions…limited and shitty! I prefer platform agnostic hardware so that I can get content from a variety of sources as easily as possible.
MS did not sell Windows Media Center to Ericsson. MS sold Mediaroom IPTV platform software to Ericsson. That’s the IPTV software (both backoffice and STB software) used by AT&T, BT and other telcos for their IPTV offerings. A very different beast than WMC. WMC is still all for Windows and all MS. MS just killing it slowly or more correctly letting it quietly to expire by not doing any new development in favor of XBox One platform.
“Who in their right minds wants to muck up their lean-back viewing experience with their Smart Oven’s status?”
I am guessing by the projected market boom for IOT(many of which that will have a need for direct integration with smart tvs,set top DVR boxes and the like) that quite a few analyst, marketers, and users in your opinion must not be in their right mind.
Xela19115, thank your for correcting me, regarding WMC. You know, before buying a Tivo Roamio, I was ready to pounce on that Ceton set top box when they announced it a few years back, but it never came to market for some reason. The Echo did come to market but was full of problems. This Samsung product might be headed to the same place where that Ceton set top box went.
Maybe they’ll copy the TiVo interface for their DVR like they copied the iPhone interface for their phones.
“I am guessing by the projected market boom for IOT(many of which that will have a need for direct integration with smart tvs,set top DVR boxes and the like) that quite a few analyst, marketers, and users in your opinion must not be in their right mind.”
Well, two retorts come to mind:
1) Lots and lots of ‘projected market booms’ in the lean-back space turn out to be smoke dreams. 3D is one recent example. Smart TV’s, (as compelling, rather than forced), has been another recent example, though one can well make the case that that one is still in play.
2) In the Venn Diagram of “Profitable Things” and “Things That Benefit Consumers”, there are spaces that don’t overlap.
IMHO, I don’t think the lean-back makes sense as an IoT hub. I think there are far better hubs, and specific reasons the lean-back isn’t well suited to being a hub. But, hey, it’s terra incognita. I could be wrong!
Another, older example: I remember when shopping was a genuine ‘projected market boom’ in the lean-back space. (And not shopping for lean-back content; shopping on the Internet for Things.) But that didn’t happen. And I wasn’t surprised in the least.
The lean-back space combines an incredibly limited UI along with an audience who just wants entertainment. It’s a weird space. Its useful applications are very narrow, but deep. Folks watch a lot of teevee.
I mean, Dave has some relatives who are tearing out their hair because they can’t figure out how to turn off the Caller ID from their teevees on their monopoly-provider’s Comcastic! triple play and equipment. That’s the lean-back.
I’m not a luddite in the lean-back. I believe in 4K. I believe in OTT as a supplement today, and as the central thing at some point in the indeterminate future when the infrastructure is in place. Hell, I’ve even got an HTPC connected to an HDMI input where I do weird hobbyist things with the lean-back.
But, IMHO, it’s not from where you want to control your Smart Oven…
As if Media center sensed my post, it put an exclamation point on the problems with Windows.
I came downstairs this morning to hear what sounded like a jet plane in the office. The media center pc was hanging on the boot screen. Apparently killed by patch Tuesday! I know that I can turn automatic updates off, but I can’t count how many times things like this have happened.
Greg-Yeah that brings back good memories (sarcasm). Beautiful interface though.
As far as shopping in the lean back space QVC would argue that did happen. And although internet shopping is taking much of those sales online they still seem to do pretty well. And you can bet Amazon will find a way to launch a QVC type channel streamed direct through their Firetv with the simplicity of 1 click purchasing from the remote in your hand.
I understand your concerns as to not believing the Tube/DVR to be the best bridge to the smart home right now. Your prob right about that due to the fact that IOT is an infant right now. But as you stated earlier that TiVo could focus on 4K and jump on board 10 years from now and let these other companies spend on R&D in the meantime. My thought was by the time that IOT/smarthome market does mature if TiVo wanted to jump onboard at that point it may be too late. The market share will already be distributed to those who developed killer software/hubs early on. Unless TiVo had the funds to outright buy one of these developing companies ala Google with NEST/Revolv and Dropcam Samsung with Smartthings… I have no idea what Tivo’s assets are worth but I dont see them as the company buying another for $3.2 billion like Google did. I love my TiVo as it is too but all I am asking for is a little push into this space, maybe something basic like a security camera that is viewable and recordable from the Tivo along with some zigbee lighting functions/status.
I think TiVo had like close to a billion at one point or markers for a number like that (due to patent licensing/settlements) and I think they have a few hundred million left – but earmarked for stock repurchase. TiVo bought Digitalsmiths video analytics for $135m about a year ago. It was rumored that Samsung picked up Smartthings for something like $200 million. The Boxee team was picked up real cheap for like $30m as an acquihire (supposedly the fruits of their labors will be unveiled mid year – we’ll see).
“As far as shopping in the lean back space QVC would argue that did happen.”
Nah. The massive hype of a ‘projected market boom’ at the time was all about a widespread future of buying physical things with your teevee remote, which just simply never happened.
“I understand your concerns as to not believing the Tube/DVR to be the best bridge to the smart home right now. Your prob right about that due to the fact that IOT is an infant right now.”
No, I really think you don’t understand, as you fundamentally miss my point. My point is that the lean-back UI will never be a suitable or popular hub for IoT control, due to the very idiosyncratic contours of the lean-back space. Even if the IoT fulfills its promoters’ wildest dreams, it’s still not something folks are going to want to interact with from the lean-back space. I really did try my best to explain a few quite specific reasons for this in my last response to you upthread, even if to no effect.
Good points and I respect your stance. In my opinion(and thats all it is) I still see it as a natural fit for things like monitoring.
“I still see it as a natural fit for things like monitoring.”
I’ve got no quarrel with the concept that there are some IoT edge-case scenarios that may well make sense for a small audience in the lean-back. And home camera systems are certainly a good example of such a scenario. But I don’t think they’re serious monetization opportunities, let alone something TiVo, (or other players in the lean-back space), should or will heavily invest R&D into implementing in order to own the future.
OTOH, my Smart Microwave and my Smart Couch fully agree with you, and have been furiously texting each other back and forth all morning. They’re trying to form a cabal with my Smart Door Lock to evict me from my home, but my Smart Door Lock has been showing its loyalty so far…
Tivo remotes are still the best remote to use by feel in the dark, more buttons are good only if the lights are on. It takes a little clicking but Tivo remotes are still the best when you want a remote where you don’t want to search for buttons. The peanut still rules.
Tablets and phones will kill the idea of buying things with your TV remote (if they haven’t already).
So can these DVRs be used offline?
Most cable company DVRs cannot – if they can’t “phone home” after a power cycle they refuse to play already-recorded content.
But my base Roamio works just fine offline, to play recorded content & to use the OTT features, so we take it with us even when on vacation.
“So can these DVRs be used offline?”
Pssst. These DVR’s don’t exist.
“But my base Roamio works just fine offline, to play recorded content & to use the OTT features, so we take it with us even when on vacation.”
Clever! It’s a “luggable”.
Though I’m almost 100% sure TiVo DVR’s do indeed shut down certain functionality if they don’t connect to the mothership for some non-trivial period of time. But I don’t know if playback is part of that functionality, and don’t know if it applies to lifetimed units.
On the subject of DVRs and TiVo. Does anyone know when the Roamio OTA model will offer a lifetime service option?
Samsung probably won’t do any software updates after the first year, because the new models will be out, so why bother with last year’s model?
Samsung smart tv’s, bluray, phones, etc. they are a consumer electronics company cranking out new hardware for every consumer electronics cycle. Not a software company. TiVo is a software company.
“Samsung probably won’t do any software updates after the first year, because the new models will be out, so why bother with last year’s model?”
I refuse to lifetime my TiVo DVR’s, even when I think it would save me a few bucks, precisely because I want to use my vote to incentivize them to provide excellent ongoing support for existing hardware.
I agree having a dvr platform that supports cable card running android TV would be the holy grail of what we all really need. Seeing these things stills make me sad that Sage TV sold out to google. It was truly the best dvr platform out there , the masses just didn’t know about it. Although I admit the lack of drm support for copy once channels was a deal breaker for folks. I bet they would’ve implemented a solution for it though.
Sadly, this device does NOT offer OTA. This would have been further competition to both TiVo and Channel Master DVR+ (made by Echostar). For cordcutters, and even some cord-nevers, OTA is the one source that has the right price and need of a DVR, at least in the old fashioned sense, this product could have appealed to the older folks cutting back on PayTV. If Channel Master can have a successful model of using (paying) Rovi for reliable and accurate EPG, why can’t the much larger Samsung et al.? My Sony HDTV uses Rovi for OTA and it is great when I do want or need to view directly to TV via OTA antenna.
FWIW, the traditional DVR box is becoming a thing of the past. Those coming of age can’t understand the need for such a thing when those other types of DVR’s such as Tablo, etc. are more of what they are looking for IF they want to DVR anything because, in truth, they DON’T DVR anything. They grew up with “the cloud” and it is in their DNA now and it makes more elegant sense to them to live and die by the Roku box or watch on their teeny smartphone screen–using a Netflix, HuluPlus, or Amazon App, not a DVR. And for those more savvy and who want more personal content, PLEX is the love of their life. All of this without a traditional DVR box that we old fogies (Yes, even the relatively young who post on this site are “old”) can’t live without and the young-lings refuse to be “bound” to. And there is the cost comparison to get a box DVR, like a TiVo, to get it to do all the things we want it too–buy Mini clients; buy a Stream or pay a premium to have one built-in to the box; connect the thing to a payTV service of an OTA antenna, deal with a separate app, etc.–The kids just don’t live in that world and the wages of the young are not keeping up with inflation. They don’t really miss the OTA content anyway, as Hulu and HuluPlus get it very soon after air if they want it and, perhaps most important, it is delivered in a medium for which they ALREADY pay for and are most comfortable uisng: the internet and whatever device they chose to connect to it for entertainment. This is also why (along with its price and most asked for content) SlingTV has a brighter future than TiVo’s, Genie’s, and Hopper’s with their concomitant high pricing. We are not Luddites. We are the old world and old way of doing things, while the young are demonstrating to us the future we see with some disdain because we are most comfortable with what we HAVE and the young are comfortable because its what they have only known in their lives. I suppose Charlton Heston was really talking about DVR boxes when he said, “From my cold, dying hands!” Uh, that we, us DVR box users.