As beautiful and cutting-edge as Metal Gear Solid 4 (PS3) is, after making it past the laughing Octopus stage in the second act, I abandoned the game, at least for now. This surprises even me. I have been waiting for years to play this game, but the lack of a decent checkpoint system and endless cut scenes turned me off.
Poorly Implemented Checkpoints
You cannot save MGS4 when you want and it’s checkpoints are few and far between. Adult gamers do not have endless hours, nor the desire, to replay extremely long portions of even a great game over and over.
When I play stealth games I want to be stealthy and play it right. This means taking my time, exploring every nook and cranny. Being sneaky. But when I sneak around for 30 minutes, successfully execute difficult maneuvers and then die, I do not want to play through the whole 30 minutes again. No game should ever force a gamer to replay more than 5 or so minutes. Period.
Yes, I could have cheated and run through sections with abandon, gunned down everyone until killed, thereby learning where all the baddies are and what their tricks are, to avoid them on the next play through. But I refuse to do that. That’s gaming the game and not playing the game. It takes all the fun out of it.
Stealth games, by definition, are designed to be played thoughtfully and slowly. The player should have a realistic chance of beating a level if they play that way. But, when they die, as they will, they shouldn’t be forced to replay the last thirty minutes or an hour to get back to where they were.
Yeah same reason I walked away from Ninja Gaidan after a while. Repetition is not fun and on limited time it’s a deal breaker.
Wow…that sucks. i was thinking about picking up the game when the price comes down a bit and I can get it used under $50. Maybe I won’t now.
I just picked up my PS3 2 weeks ago on a special for total of $199 + tax, and have been having a blast playing Assassin’s Creed. Every little objective completed including finding a flag will save the game automatically. If I only have 15 minutes to play, I can and the game will most likely save 2 or 3 times in that time frame. It’s a great game for people who can only play in small chunks.
OMG you did not just dis MGS4?!? Naw, just kidding, I am way too much of a fan to objectively comment, and I actually appriecate your review.
Check points are super important for enjoyable gameplay but I wonder if the lack of them here, in MGS4, is completely intentional by Kojima-san.
Maybe the extended time between check points is to induce a sense of “battle fatigue” in the player? Psychologically distress us, so we will forget to swap the controller ports this time? Hmmmm..
As far as “long” cut scenes, that’s kind of a given, always has been in MGS. I like them, the “immersion” and “theatricality” of it.
@Nate Where can we get the PS3 for $199??
“You cannot save MGS4 when you want and its checkpoints are few and far between”
Are you playing the same game as the rest of us? you are able to save whenever you want. Pause and scroll down to Save. The only problem I have with the game is the hour long cut scenes. And the install after act.
Hatter:
Either you’re not taking your own advice or you are not reading the fine print.
When you save that way, you are only saving the last checkpoint. Whatever you’ve done since the last save point is lost when you save. It even tells you that onscreen when you save.
The only advantage of this particular method of saving is if you want to be able to jump back into the game later to replay from specific checkpoints.
But it does not in any way address my concern. The point that is saved when you use that function is exactly the chekpoint you’ll be returned to if you die.
This, by the way, is not unique to MGS4. Lots of games use this approach. The reason they do this is because it is technically difficult to create save points that remember every detail of where a player is on the save. Checkpoint saves are MUCH easier to implement. I was listening to one of the developers of MGS4 on the 1Up Yours Podcast two week ago and he addressed this exact issue. They tried, for awhile, to implement a save-where-you want system but it was too much work and they abandonned it.
But lots of games have pulled it off and it is the NORM on PC games, not the exception like it is on consoles.
But with every PS3 having a hard drive the old ‘excuse’ of limited storage space has fallen away. The only reason MGS4 has for not pulling it off is lack of development skill, time and or effort. And, as I said, the developer admitted that very thing 2 weeks ago. So, it is what it is.
…Dale
sorry but you are a fool seriously first you say you dont have that much time to play games that take a long time then you say you expect a game like that to be taken slowly and take a long time so what is wrong with it. also there are more than enough checkpoints and the cut scenes are what make metal gear solid better than any other game on top of the amazing gameplay coz it tell a gr8 story. I think you are a fool to be honest the game is the best game i have ever played by far and the most it has taken me to get through one checkpoint is ten minutes taking it slowly
@Dale
I understand that I’ve seen the screen. All that I’m saying is I know when I saved the other night it was right before the Vamp battle. And I know last night I started @ the same place I was when I saved. Now that might have been a checkpoint and I didn’t know it. LOL maybe I’m playing a different MGS4
I think saving everytime you want is bad, because you lose the essence of be in a war, you dont care about die, it is very lame saving 10 times in a chapter,why playing in hard if you want to do that, so play in easy and you dont care about save, =), everyone should buy this game its so perfect,…. Long cutscenes? just skip it, but there are people like me that like the cutscenes a lot.
and ps. first time i play a mgs since the nes one
@Dave
I got a 40GB one from wal-mart. They had a deal where you bought any Bluray player (a fathers day promotion that they didn’t advertise in store) you got a $100 gift card. For as much as I spend there, it’s as good as cash to me. I also got a Sony Rewards CC where they had a deal where every purchase over $250 for the first 45 days was interest free for 1 year, and a purchase of a PS3 they gave you a $100 credit on your card.
I found the deal on Slickdeals.net
Sorry to add another comment, but here is the sony card deal.
http://sonycard.sony.com/sonygateway/gateway.asp?offerlink=sonycardps3c100&PID=none&SPID=B7RY&CELL=6064&MSC=&AFFID=&CLICK=&CID=&PROMO=DF01
Oh, and it was $299, not $250…
I haven’t played Assas. Creed yet, but I found checkpoint in Gears of War to be very cool. I don’t have a lot of time to play either (20 mins – 1 hr per session), so that save system was very cool.
Jamie:
Your point that the game should be hard and that saving makes it too easy and you loose the essence of war, is one I’ve heard many times. And, hey, that’s great.
I’ve heard this argument many many times. Again, usually by developers too lazy or unskilled to add proper save points or by fanboy apologists. I find it funny that nobody ever makes the counter-argument, that PC games are ruined or made too easy because almost every triple A PC title allows you to save whenever you want.
If you don’t want to save, then don’t. If you want the additional challenge of not having any save points or checkpoints you can play that way. It’s fun for you. Great.
It’s not for me.
Ivan:
Gears of War, all the Halo’s and many many other games are terrific examples of games that do not allow you to save where you want BUT have decent checkpoints. While my preference is to have the ability to save whenever I want, I’m fine with the terrific games that do have decent automatic save points. MGS4 is NOT one of them. :(
…Dale
HATER.
Why would you write an article about this? Sounds like you’re a player hater. Also sounds like you maybe got a little scared of fighting the laughing Octopus. Don’t worry I’ll hold your hand for the rest of the game. Keep hating while I play one of the best games of all time.
For all of those above who hate a long cutscene… if you don’t like them then go and play something else. Long cutscenes are an integral part of the Metal Gear Solid series and I love them. Kojima is truly the master of his craft, MGS 4 being the prime example. As for the checkpoint issue, the first time I played through the game I disliked being killed and having to play a chunk of the mission again, but as I played through it a second time and didn’t die, I found I had no grounds on which to gripe about. MGS 4 is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, Snake’s finest hour.
I must disagree. Playing the game on the hardest “Normal” difficulty, I still utilized stealth and managed to avoid any Game Over screens. I’m currently playing the game on the hardest difficulty (The Boss Extreme Mode) and it’s quite the challenge… but even here I would not want real-time checkpoints… each checkpoint is actually rather close to eachother anyways. I have a feeling that you are simply having a hard time with this game and should try playing it on an easier difficulty? Or perhaps there are some things you’re not aware you can do? (Hold-ups, using the Mk.II to shock enemies, throwing empty magazines, using the face camo) etc?
Ironically, the act after the act you’ve pretty much almost finished sucks and actually needs more checkpoints.
Lastly, every MGS game have lengthy cutscenes except for the ones in the 80’s. It’s like being annoyed by the ridiculousness of the characters in Devil May Cry.
Il make this short and sweet. You CAN SAVE ANYTIME YOU WANT. It invloves the tedious and painful act of pressing the start button (OMG !!!NOT THE START BUTTON). So this *ahem* review is totally moronic. Did you even play the damn game dude?
Second, this game CLEARLY SAYS ON THE BACK that its a, ready for this, CINEMATIC game. Gee, I would have never guessed there would be cut scenes.
So I have one question, WHY ARE YOU PLAYING GAMES LIKE THIS IF YOU DONT CARE FOR THEM? The cutscenes are what make games like this amazing. You get involved, and actually become part of the story yourself, as if you were really there. If games like this are too “advanced” or “complicated” or whatever you wanna call it, then go buy play a game like lets say, Mario.
Have a nice day people, and dont listen to this review in its subliminal ways. IF you want a truly memerable and rewarding gaming experience, then play this game. Its well worth the 50 bucks. :)
I think the comments left here are yet another example of why it is almost impossible to voice any criticism of MGS without it’s fanboys coming on and blasting the author for daring to say anything bad about their beloved series. To say MGS fans are fanatically blind is an understatement.
Anyway, I agree with Dale that checkpoints can be done in a good way. Halo and GoW are good examples, but the perfect example to compare in this partciular context are the Splinter Cell games. I am like Dale, I REALLY take my time when playing SC. In fact, on a few levels in Pandora Tomorrow I deliberately went about the mission with the aim of NOT killing any of the bad guys, even though it was allowed. I lost count of the number of times I died, because if you get spotted sneaking up, it’s game over. The important thing though was that going back to the Checkpoint wasn’t a problem because even though the Checkpoints aren’t exactly abundant, they are placed in the right places on the levels, so I didn’t get bored.
FYI I reserve the right to selectively edit asinine comments (as I did with OMG’s) or mark them as spam. Dissenting opinions are fine, but keep it mature – no name calling.
@ LW: MGS4’s checkpoints are about as close as Splinter Cell’s are. I haven’t played any of the SC games after Pandora Tomorrow though, if you’re talking about those. For the record, MGS4 does not actually tell you when each and every checkpoint is met. For the most part, you have passed a checkpoint when the game tells you you have (in the bottom left corner) or after a cutscene. Considering how many cutscenes are in this game, even in the harder difficulties I don’t see any reason to complain unless you still have yet to master the controls. In this case, it’s mostly an issue with the player, not the game.
I am, right now, going through the hardest difficulty avoiding any kills, alerts, or continues for the sake of unlockable items and I can assure you that while trial-and-error gets obnoxious, each checkpoint is close enough to which I’m not trying to go for longer than six minutes until the next point where I can save should I die and have to load it up (because no continues).
It’s just ironic that Dale here is complaining about this when the issue should only be raised in the ever-so-annoying Act 3. Acts 1, 2, 4, and 5 have checkpoints that are close enough for comfort. Perhaps Dale should simply try playing the game on an easier difficulty. Or maybe the Metal Gear series is not for him. That’s all I’m saying.
Thomas … clearly you play differently than me. Checkpoints are NOT every 6 minutes the way I play. They are more like 30 to 40. I acknowledge I play slower than most.
Now, if I died and am playing through a section again, yes I could get to 6 minutes between cut scenes because I know what’s going to happen, where all the bad guys are etc.
There were two places in particular that really frustrated me. The scene RIGHT after you first get the barrel camoflage. I’d play that meticulously and get very close to the next cutscene when the game says “hurry up or xyz will happen”. So I hurry up and get killed. I assumed some kind of timer was kicking in or if I didn’t go faster something bad would happen. But, as I note in my diary entries, you can just ignore the hurry up messages – nothing bad happens if you don’t hurry up. And, now, once I know how that scene ends and where exactly I have to go I could get through it in 5 or 6 minutes. But it took me about 6 replays to get through it. The first time I spent at least a 1/2 hour playing that part. The next time was probably 25, then 20 etc. as I increasingly memorized the level.
The next part was immediately after the laughing Octopus where, as I said above, I had only 1 ration left and no other noodles (yes I now know you can back track and find one more noodles) and you have to follow the footprints. They tell you to go REALLY slowly because you are being hunted too. So, I did. I spent easily 40 minutes slowly sneaking around. Smelling out every corner. Slowly taking out soldiers one by one then hiding them. And, on my first time through, out of the blue I hear an alarm saying we are being attacked, and I’m swarmed by bad guys. I’m cornered and have only one ration. There was no way I could survive that. I honestly do not know what happened. I’m guessing one of my hidden bad guys was found. So, there was 40 minutes gone. And right back to the exit of Octopus’s lair. So I do it again. Ya, it was about 30 minutes before I turned a corner with my one ration and walked straight into 6 soldiers that all came at me at once – dead again. As I got increasingly frustrated I was less sneaky and more just getting through it to get through it. Only to die again and again with no ability to save progress where I wanted.
That’s when I finally sead enough was enough. There were other situations in the game that were similar but those two were the worst for me.
Since I have completed every Halo on all levels including Legendary. I have completed Gears of War on the hardest level. I have played Call of Duy 4 through on all levels. And several other games at their hardest level, I am not going to play a game on easy. I am an experienced gaming veteran.
I’m not finding the game too hard – its not. I’m finding the cut scenes too few and far between for a stealthy adult player that usually doesn’t have more than an hour or so a day to play.
But thanks to some of the helpful tips I’ve received here, and in the comments to where the FULL post resides:
http://www.daleisphere.com/i-abandoned-metal-gear-solid-4-for-now/
(I wonder if many of you read the entire post or just the first part copied into ZNF), I’ve got enough tips from helpful people that I will likely give it a go again after Wimbledon is over.
As I have said from the first line, it is a beautiful game and I would like to finish it and enjoy the process.
No offense Dale, but since this is your first run through the game and you are using up a lot of healing items, I believe you are, indeed, having difficulty. You are mentioning some rather hard games, but those games are played quite differently, don’t you agree?
For example, you are ambushed by those female soldiers. How many weapons do you have on you? If you’re out of ammo, you can buy it using Drebin points. Hopefully, since you seem to be pretty good with Gears of War and Halo you’re NOT using auto-aim, right? Pick them off (make sure you attach a silencer so more enemies don’t hear you) with headshots and then RUN and find some cover! While you are hiding and waiting for the alert/evasion/caution to go down, if you are lying down or sitting, your health regenerates slowly. If you equip the iPod or find the Muna in South America it heals even faster.
The sad thing is that the act after the South America stage, despite there being less action, involves more stealth and less checkpoints. You might give up then. From where you are at, though, you might want to look into the start menu’s BRIEFING option that explains how to do certain things that you might not be aware you can do, or just play at an easier difficulty.
MGS4 is by no means perfect (9/10 AT BEST) but I think your main issues are more personal than with the game. Every MGS game has a story driven by cinematic cutscenes. Your frustration is normal though because MGS4 is a sequel to MGS2. MGS4 is answering questions that you never had. MGS4 is wrapping up a story you have little knowledge about. The BDROM is used up, but not by cutscenes, by lossless audio that only a few people will be able to fully enjoy using a 7.1 surround sound system. The checkpoint system is just as good as other stealth titles, and the “lack” of healing items is based on the difficulty you’re playing and the fact that Snake’s Octocamo heals itself.
Thanks for the helpful tips Thomas.
I wasn’t REALLY having health issues. Again, I had 8 ration packs before I got upset with the checkpoint system and then UNCHARACTERISTICALLY plowed forward.
I played through all of the Splinter Cell Series and honestly don’t recall any more whether I thought their checkpoints were too far apart or not. I do remember being annoyed at the game at many points.
My basic point, regardless of difficulty, is that I want the console world to evolve to what the PC gaming world has been for years – a world where players choose their save points – or the game creates checkpoints every 5 or so minutes apart. I don’t think Halo or Gears checkpoint systems were perfect either … but I never had the frustration I had with those games as I did with MGS4. And I don’t mean to imply MGS4 is the only game that has caused me grief. There are many in the past that I tossed for the same reason – especially some of the James Bond ones.
It’s just that I didn’t blog about games before I started the Daleisphere.com blog a couple months ago and this particular game is getting the brunt of my wrath for one of the 1/2 dozen or so pet peeves I have with console games today.
I’m almost certainly going to pick the game up and play it again when Wimbledon is over. I’ll start back at the check point where I had my 8 rations and use the tips others have given me. I’m still going to be peeved by the checkpoint system though! :) But maybe less so! :)
…Dale
Sounds good. I’m looking forward to your opinions about Act 3. I personally did not like it too much.