Today’s question of the day comes to us from George C…
My brother-in-law just moved from the West Coast back to Texas. In doing so, of course he dropped his triple play Internet/TV/Cable. He also sold/gave away his old CRT televisions. They watched Netflix via an old computer (they didn’t know about Roku type of devices). He and his family (wife, two younger kids) just bought a new house and he is very open to new configurations. He is technically capable of installing software, routers, etc…. But would not delve into (for example) Myth TV, pyTivo, etc…
He’ll probably need two TVs, one for the living room and one for the master bedroom. OTA is a possibility, as there is a clear shot to the towers. The wife really wants a land-line “in case of emergency”. He thinks that they can stay with cell phones (I suggested Ooma). The house alarm system come with an independent wireless system. He doesn’t mind paying a fair price for a device, but really, really wants to avoid recurring monthly fees.
Everything is on the table. TiVo? WMC? Roku? DVD players? DSL? Cable? U-verse capability is available. Cell phones (since wife wants land-line, but he thinks not necessary). How about TVs … plain or “smart” TV?
If you were starting completely over, what would you do? How would you configure your brand new house for maximum WAF, minimum or no monthly costs, and easy administration/setup?
We recently started with a nearly blank slate as well and have been slowly rebuilding. Our first major project was to dump the local cableco and copper in favor of Verizon’s FiOS services. While giving up on POTS gave us pause, the VoIP battery backup provides some comfort. However, with kids in the mix like George’s extended family, I might be less likely to do away with the copper landline completely. Most telephone companies offer extremely cheap basic service — perhaps that would provide the wife piece of mind without breaking the bank. However, I wouldn’t consider DSL for Internet service if they plan to do anything at all “over the top” as the throughput just isn’t there. So the family would need either fiber or cable Internet.
In regards to television hardware, I’d say skip “smart” sets. Rather, they can’t go wrong augmenting their entertainment options with a few Roku boxes (starting at only $60) or similar. Especially given their existing Netflix subscription. And when the next thing comes along, replace them. However, my family still finds great value in “cable tv” despite those recurring monthly fees. As such, we settled on a Verizon triple play that has been working out fine. Bundle discounts for new customers, regardless of provider, are often quite competitive and compelling – especially in regions with competition. I’d just ensure the family learns ahead of time if/when any promotional pricing might expire. Unfortunately for George’s family, they don’t live in Suddenlink’s Texas territory. Suddenlink, if you recall, directly rents and supports TiVo Premiere hardware.
Lastly, everyone needs a cell phone.
Other suggestions or possibilities for George to pass along?
I believe this one device should cover all the bases.
Nothing says WAF than a universal remote.
Daily wear and tear have caused me to go through 3 Harmony remotes in the last 3 years but I’m still very happy with them.
Another WAF item is hiding the stuff.
IR systems from XANTECH and rack systems from AVRAK (http://www.avrak.com/) have worked well for me.
@Chucky, snark does not befit you. :) I expected the best response from you when I sent the request to Dave.
@Dave, we get limited DSL at my house, but we are just fine with it at 1.5Mbps. For kids shows and the like by Netflix, we don’t need the over-the-top speeds. Is there no DSL speed that you would consider?
Nah, considering the competitive price of fiber or cable, I see no reason to be hampered by DSL. I’ve been streaming HD for a long time and also as a Slingbox owner and now remotely controlling a home computer, I appreciate decent size upload speeds. It could make sense for your brother-in-law if they also wanted to bundle a basic POTS plan, tho and they don’t intend to stream much or aren’t so worried about picture quality.
Just did this myself. Got 2 Samsung LCDs, 2 Marantz AVRs, 3 Sonos sones, 2 Harmony Remotes, 1 DVD player in the main family room. Everything goes through the Marantzs. I’ve held off on the Roku / Apple TV decision at this point. Heavily leaning towards the aTV with the iPads w/ airplay. Waiting for the iPad3 as I’m not convinced the iPad2 has enough RAM to support the needs of a long term streaming device. We actually have a DVR from Comcast and a Tivo HD. It creates a bit of a problem managing ‘where’ to record things, but it is actually pretty clear where you watch things so it’s not that big a deal. The comacast dvr is in the bedroom since that is where we mostly use the On Demand; and the Tivo is in the main viewing room since that is where we spend the most time surfing / watching TV.
And everything is in a closet with IR repeaters.
I’ve left out gaming systems from my equation, but I do have an Xbox360 and PS3, but the family does not use the multimedia capability of either and my wife doesn’t touch those at all. I concluded that getting anyone to use those as a DVD / Bluray, while an ideal solution, is just too complicated from an ease of use.
The only problem with this setup is that you cannot watch TV and have Sonos on in the same room since they are on the same AVR that only outputs one source at a time. I think an upgraded AVR would do the trick but it’s rarely an issue.
We do use an iPad1 and love the xfinity app, hbo to go, and tivo app. Getting sick of the iPad1 which is becoming increasingly slow. Hoping for an ipad3 release soon than later.
Agree that “smart” TVs are not worth the extra money for generally poor performance. Roku players are a good option (although I am interested to see some hands on reviews for the new Sony smp-n200) for an inexpensive device that provides access to the most prominant streaming movie services (i.e. Netflix, Amazon, Hulu Plus and Crackle) as well as sports (NHL, MLB and NBA) packages. If iDevices (Pad, Phone or Touch) are owned, I highly recommend using the DVPRemote app with the Roku players. Regarding remotes for other elements within the system, like Bobharp, I highly recommend the Harmony line. I have owned a couple Ones, a 1000 and a 300; all are great. If you are not opposed to spending a little bit more on a device and the kids have an interest in gaming, you might consider an Xbox (Netflix, Hulu Plus, Zune movies and music, and ESPN3) in the living room.
I would give strong consideration to getting improved Internet service. Unless you are really satisfied with being limited to SD streams while watching the likes of Netflix and you are certain that you won’t ever be accessing the Internet via more than one device at a time, 1.5 Mbps service just will not cut it.
A nice, inexpensive component you can add to the living room/media room system is a remote controlled lutron dimmer switch. It is kind of a nice touch to be able to dim the lights to a movie level and control the audio/video system all via a remote like a Harmony.
Well, if you are trying to figure out what the answer to “How would you configure your brand new house for maximum WAF” should be, then
you have to ask your wife. Then you have your answer.
“@Chucky, snark does not befit you. I expected the best response from you when I sent the request to Dave.”
Apologies. Seemed like such big a project that comedy was the only quick answer. (Plus I genuinely do love them rotaries.) I’ll take a look and give input if I can.
WAF is important, as is simplicity. B-in-law doesn’t want to spend time admin’ing some complex system. Minimizing monthly fees is pretty high on the list. I’m thinking two TVs (make them the same brand to keep button-pushing simple), two Rokus for NetFlix/Amazon streaming. But not sure about Apple TV or other solution. Xbox?? I’m thinking 2 OTA Tivos (monthly fees, but less complex than WMC). I thought that an OOMA device would give his wife the “security” of being able to pick up a landline device, along with the back up cell phone(s). I don’t have experience with OOMA though.
Do you even need a DVD player nowadays?
@Bobharp’s universal remote suggestion was good, as was @jcm’s suggestion for using the remote with a dimmer device.
Chucky, I did caution George that the scope of his query might limit the responses…
George, Ooma utilizes traditional phones, however it’s still a VoIP solution. If your router loses power or your Internet connection is otherwise interrupted, you lose the ability to make calls. It uses the same e911 as everyone else. I’d still look for those emergency only landline services. I forget how much they run, but think it was under or about $10 (and then you obviously get hit with high usage fees over like 25 local calls or something). Also, Ooma is a startup so you’re banking on their continued survival and success.
Xbox is bulky, noisy, and probably not the ideal interface for a high WAF. I’m a fan, but wouldn’t make my wife find VOD or Netflix through it. And Netflix does require Xbox Live Gold, which would run them another $60/year. If you use it as a Media Center extender, you can boot straight into that UI (at least you used to be able to) which helps. But you got to count on the PC on the other end of the house being fully functional at all times and you’ll want both sides hardwired.
Apple TV is pretty slick but runs more than the base Rokus and is tied into Apple’s ecosystem. That’s both bad and good. Fewer channels, but more polish. We have both Roku and Apple TV.
If they really want to save on those monthly fees and give up pay TV, the new TiVo Premiere dealio with an OTA-only subscription of $10/month seems like it could be a great option. You get your OTA, DVR, Netflix, and Amazon VOD all in one box with the same remote in each room. Of course those Amazon and Netflix app interfaces are tired and dated, but they mostly work if your connectivity is solid. You could supplement with Roku – there are some “channels” that swipe web or iPad shows (like HGTV) which might give you just enough “cable” content to get by.
@George, Is a DVD/blu-ray player needed? It depends. I was I never a huge collector of DVDs nor am I a collector of BD discs; I probably only have ~40. However, there are movies that I will watch multiple times, favorite classics (i.e. Blade Runner, Alien box set, etc.) that I insist on seeing (and hearing) in the highest fidelity possible; particularly since I took the time to build a home theater/media room. Considering that you can get a good blu-ray player for $150 – $200, I would suggest it can’t hurt to include one in any audio/video system
And in that same $150 range, they all come with apps/channels – potentially saving you on one less Roku or Apple TV.
There’s also the PS3 with Blu-ray, VOD, Hulu Plus, and Netflix – now down to a low of $250. But you’ll need an adapter if you intend to use an IR remote (it’s Bluetooth by default) and like the 360 is a bit on a bulky side and the UI may not be the most pleasing to the wife. But at least there’s no unsightly power brick.
Make sure the DSL/Cable drop is right by one of the TVs and someplace you can drop a WiFi router and get coverage most of the places you hang out.
Make sure you have Cat 5e or better Ethernet cable dropped to every location a TV might go. That means EVERY bedroom, family room, etc. Sure WiFi works for most things, but its often an extra cost adder and won’t work as well as wired. If you’re starting fresh make sure its wired. and when I say wired I don’t mean untested unterminated cables hanging unconnected in a wiring closet. I mean cables with RJ45 jacks hooked up to a switch and the whole thing neatly placed in a closet.
Maximum WAF? Either in-ceiling speakers or a soundbar. Some of the new soundbars like the ones from Boston Acoustics don’t require much setup, don’t have a power switch, and work with your existing remote. Do the in-ceiling speakers if you want great surround–the soundbar will not be as good. But installing one takes a few minutes vs. hours/days routing cables through the wall, repairing holes, repainting.
Simplest to use is going to be a Tivo, but as you say its going to be min $10/Tivo and you need one in each room. The obvious alternative is Windows Media Center running on say a Mac Mini type box using one of the new network cable card tuners if you want to record cable channels. I think you can get this to a reasonable WAF if you spend time on it, and there won’t be any monthly fee at all for OTA programming and it can handle recording cable at least. You just have to stay away from Satellite. And if you are in a Time Warner area the SDV thing will be a giant pain in the ass.
Personally I’d go with the Tivo, in particular buy one Premiere Elite NOW and then sit on the other one and wait and see if the Preview comes to retail soon. If not you’ll be stuck buying at least another Premiere.
For OTT I’d personally recommend the Apple TV. It does Netflix but also a la carte TV shows and movies. Worth it to supplement the live TV you’ll watch most of the time. The boxes are cheap, easy to use and if you don’t buy a lot of stuff, won’t cost you much per month either. And they might do more in the future. Roku’s are fine too but a little slow and not as easy to use. Both will require switching inputs though, which unless you automate with a universal remote of some kind (I’d go with an iOS app myself) the wife will never get used to.
If you get smart TV applications as a SIDE EFFECT of the TV you like best then great, otherwise ignore the issue. You can replace the internet features with a $60 box that will have more features and you can throw out in two years.
I’d go with the FIOS set-up, two basic 720 TVs (still not much in 1080 and kids shows in particular are cartoons that don’t look all that different on a flat screen of any dpi)
He may want to have one TV for the adults and another for the kids in which case he can do a fancier set-up (ceiling speakers, etc.) for the “adult” set-up
No need for universal remote – you get identical remotes from FIOS (or any cable provider) and you work the TV through the set-top box, not the TV itself.
With DVD, he’ll have to figure out what’s most likely to get watched – again, kid’s show are not on Blu-Ray and they’re cartoons.
If Netflix is his thing, get a Roku, if he’d rather use iTunes, get AppleTV – no need for TiVo or any smart TV, since it won’t be long before all the major pay TV providers offer OTT as part of their service, available on their set-top box/DVR combination and easily accessed from the Pay TV provider’s smartphone and iPad apps, maybe even Facebook
Landline phone provider would not worry me– little kids don’t use the phone and when they get older, they’ll be texting friends on their own cellphones, so it’s really about how he and his wife use the phone.
Hope that helps.
“I’m thinking 2 OTA Tivos (monthly fees, but less complex than WMC).”
Sounds correct to me for the budget minded.
“two Rokus for NetFlix/Amazon streaming. But not sure about Apple TV or other solution.”
If you want OTT, you’re going to end up needing to spend more on a decent internet connection, at which point, the benefits of OTA start to diminish.
I’d actually advise steering clear of OTT, unless you think it’s utterly necessary to satisfy the kids. A DVD player and whatever Netflix is currently calling their mail order disc service seems better value for whatever you can’t get OTA. If you like picture quality, consider the modest cost upgrade to Blu-Ray.
Go as cheap as you can on the flat-panels, with the notion that size matters. Big panels, low-end models. Wire with cat5 cable. Avoid any hardware other than a disc player. Economize on your monthly internet connection fee.
All of this is given that your priorities seem to be about approaching this as a cheapie, and that’s how I’d advise you to get the most value for your buck.
“He doesn’t mind paying a fair price for a device, but really, really wants to avoid recurring monthly fees.”
Personally, I think this is the wrong mindset, but I’m willing to spend more on home entertainment than you seem to be budgeting for.
I actually advise going with the opposite, spend lots on services, skimp on hardware, and locally cache. For example, I spend lots for my wireline and delivery monthly, and go cheap on hardware. I’ve got a previous generation TiVo box, and a several generations ago Mac Mini box hooked up to my flat-panel. I locally cache my programming like crazy, since platter hard drives are ultra-cheap, and keep my own content library. That gets me a lot of bang for my limited hardware buck, but I’m willing to spend a higher monthly fee for the privilege.
But every use-case scenario is wildly different, with even minor preference differences leading to wildly different recommendations, which is why this is such a complicated query.
Why does everyone need a cell phone? They re expensive and a bother to carry around and recharge. I don’t need or want instant communication. Email and my landline are enough.
“Do I need a DVD player?”
Well, I went with a Blu-ray player (around $100) to stream Amazon Prime videos via Wi-Fi, since my Tivo won’t stream Amazon (downloads work well, though)
I don’t own any Blu-ray discs, but it’s been nice to rent them cheaply from Redbox or Netflix.
Based on what I see here, I suggested to my brother-in-law to start with choosing cable or DSL internet access, bearing in mind pricing and speed. Use Solid Signal and AntennaWeb.org to pick an antenna. Pick a “non-smart” TV. See how the OTA channel lineup and quality work. Add Roku or Apple TV, depending on choice of Netflix or iTunes (per @Alan) . Per @Bill in NC, spend a few extra bucks on a bit better Blu-ray DVD player. If OTA is OK, then add 1 or 2-Tivos from the Solid Signal offering. For some niceties, add remotes from Harmony and speaker-in-ceilings.
George, Netflix is available on both Roku and Apple TV. It’s the other stuff that would be the deciding factors. Roku has more channels (including Amazon). Apple TV ties into the Apple/iTunes ecosystem. Also, Roku or Apple TV could be redundant if they go TiVo given Netflix, Amazon VOD, and Hulu Plus apps.
I continue to hear that the Netflix and Amazon apps on TiVo are poorly executed. I’ve got an older S2 and a TiVo HD personally, and I’d agree. But for the WAF part, might be better to not have an extra box.
“Based on what I see here, I suggested to my brother-in-law to start with choosing cable or DSL internet access … Add Roku or Apple TV, depending on choice of Netflix or iTunes (per @Alan)”
Again, without a good internet connection, streaming video like Roku and Apple are not going to be particularly satisfactory, which is why I advised saving money by skimping on the monthly internet bill, and spending on a monthly physical disc delivery service.
“I continue to hear that the Netflix and Amazon apps on TiVo are poorly executed. I’ve got an older S2 and a TiVo HD personally, and I’d agree. But for the WAF part, might be better to not have an extra box.”
I know that everyone complains about the Netflix app on TiVo, but I just don’t get it.
Certainly, you can’t do “discovery” on the lean-back with the TiVo Netflix client, but I personally love the TiVo HD Netflix client precisely because it mimics the rest of the TiVo interface, with the same remote. And not only do I like it, but it does wonders for the WAF on Netflix.
As far as doing Netflix “discovery”, that’s why god invented laptops. Who wants to do “discovery” with a lean-back UI? Gotta be nuts, IMHO. It’s a job for a keyboard and a mouse/trackpad.
Now, with the Amazon VOD client on TiVo, you can’t take advantage of Amazon Prime streaming. Which is a downside, if that’s what you want. However, TiVo is actually the best way to do Amazon a-la-carte rental or delivery. You get a better picture quality product than you do on any other client, and because the video downloads instead of streaming, you can use it even if you have a lousy internet connection.
In fact, if you have a lousy internet connection, Amazon VOD via TiVo is pretty much the only OTT video you can happily experience.
Again, without a good internet connection, streaming video like Roku and Apple are not going to be particularly satisfactory, which is why I advised saving money by skimping on the monthly internet bill, and spending on a monthly physical disc delivery service.
You know, I guess everyone just has different levels of needs. For me personally (not my b-in-law), we only get AT&T DSL at 1.5Mbps or Charter cable for Internet access. I throw up in my mouth a little bit every time I think of dealing with Charter for any reason. I would rather stick with the DSL at 1.5Mbps. For my family, we are perfectly satisfied with the picture and sound that we get when streaming Netflix through our Roku or Tivo (or even the Wii).
Now Amazon VOD download is impossible. 24 hours to download a movie isn’t exactly VOD.
I know that everyone complains about the Netflix app on TiVo, but I just don’t get it.
Certainly, you can’t do “discovery” on the lean-back with the TiVo Netflix client, but I personally love the TiVo HD Netflix client precisely because it mimics the rest of the TiVo interface, with the same remote. And not only do I like it, but it does wonders for the WAF on Netflix.
OK, I’ll buy all of that. But TiVo could do better with the Netflix app. They could make discovery possible. It’s not bad on the Roku. It is possible to make a good lean-back experience. I will note though that it is really up to Netflix to add features like multiple queues and parental controls that the clients then have access to.
For cheap VoIP, skip Ooma. Buy an ObiHAI 100 or 110 and use Google Voice with a regular phone. Google Voice will outlast Ooma.
We dropped copper landline and use Google Voice. During cable outages, our DECT panasonic phones dial our cell phones via bluetooth pairing. Cell phones are never “out” so just as good as copper line.