TiVo Confirms HBOGo, Alludes To New Provider Solutions

ZNF regulars know HBOGo is headed to TiVo’s platform, although management has yet to say anything publicly… until last week.

The new partnership will enable Buckeye’s customers to enjoy a consistent TV experience combining TiVo’s feature-rich User Interface with a market leading content experience — the best of traditional cable content combined with diverse broadband-delivered OTT content, such as Hulu, YouTube, HBOGo, and more.

While this (surprisingly detailed) press release is specific to a new cable provider partnership, I can’t imagine HBOGo would not make it’s way to retail TiVo boxes as well. The only real question is: Will HBO Now also make an appearance for the cord cutters amongst us?

Also within TiVo’s announcement is discussion of a set-top box… that does away with CableCARD. This could merely be a broadband-connected DTA, as demo-ed at the 2014 Cable Show. Or, given the retirement of CableCARD, something else entirely.

When combined with TiVo’s multi-mode software, Buckeye’s non-DVR hybrid STB is expected to be future-proof, providing Buckeye customers with great quality and value for years to come. The software deployed in this offering is capable of delivering traditional and broadband video without the requirement of a CableCARD.

(Thanks Mathew A!)

87 thoughts on “TiVo Confirms HBOGo, Alludes To New Provider Solutions”

  1. Still beating that drum, but GOD am I glad I left TiVo after 15(!) years. They have a massive hard on for crapware like HBOGo and Hulu. I know people use it, but they lost focus on what the main purpose is – time shifting TV. They’re fizzing out, and can’t hide behind untold sums of loot they got from all the lawsuits. The money’s gone, and to me they look like they’re desperately trying to find that magic bullet. HBOGo ain’t it.

    Got my Hopper 3 last month, it’s awesome. A few glitches, but soooo much more enjoyable than that bent thing TiVio is offering.

  2. I have a friend who works for a cable provider and heard that an announcement for HBOGo could be as early as tomorrow for retail boxes.

  3. Yes! This is great news! It would be awesome if it came to TiVo Roamios this week — I’m planning to resubscribe to HBO before the new seasons of Togetherness and Girls starts this Sunday.

  4. Here’s a funky question. If you subscribe to HBONow as your means of being an HBO subscriber (same as if you subscribed through cable or satellite), does that then give you access to HBOGo as well?

  5. @Dave, I understand that. What in asking is in order to be authenticated to use HBOGo, you must have a subsription to HBO as a premium channel package through a cable or satellite provider. What I’m asking is if that subscription to HBO happens to be through HBO directly with the HBONow app, does that also then give you authentication as an HBO subscriber to use on the HBOGo app?

    I currently have a subscription to HBONow on my FireTV and the reason I was wondering is if TiVo only gets the HBOGo app (and not HBONow),could it be used and authenticated from that subscription?

  6. “HBONow and HBOGo are separate services (on separate platforms).”

    Of course, I entirely agree with you about “separate services”, and that an HBONow sub won’t work for HBOGo.

    But, as I’ve briefly discussed before, I’m highly dubious for a bunch of reasons that they’re still “on separate platforms”. Even that Verge article you cited seemed to strongly imply they moved HBO Go to MLB too…

  7. Chucky, they could have the same streaming tech but different front-ends and back offices… But I’ve got no idea where in the transition they are.

    MarkV, a lot of radio silence out of TiVo. One of the more pessimistic views on the forum is that SkipMode could become an add-on service ($) for Roamio. Sure hope they’re not contemplating that.

  8. “Chucky, they could have the same streaming tech but different front-ends and back officesâ€Ĥ But I’ve got no idea where in the transition they are.”

    Fair point. My strong guess is that the back-ends are both MLB, but you might well be correct that everything else is still different.

  9. Assuming that, on a given device, the HBO Go app and the HBO Now app have the same UI (they do, right?) and handle the incoming video stream the same way once it’s received (I’ve no idea but given that both services use h.264 video, seems plausible) — well, I’d think that not very much needs to be done to alter the code for the HBO Go app to turn it into an HBO Now app. The main tech differences between the two services have always been on the back-end, in the servers and CDNs, no?

  10. I would assume that’s their practical/efficient ultimate goal – but one service came up as they were transitioning providers, hence the delta for a period of time.

  11. @Chucky

    I guess not, i read everything in that link and still don’t follow when skipmode will roll out to the North East for Roamios.

    I mean far as know Dave did not win the 1.6 billion

    @Dave yea i will definitely pass on paying a fee to get skipmode, i dont want to start a new trend with TiVo to get new features.

  12. “I’d think that not very much needs to be done to alter the code for the HBO Go app to turn it into an HBO Now app.”

    Well, now we’re back to the same points as the last HBO / TiVo thread, but my assertion, both then and now, is that if HBO Now doesn’t come to TiVo, the only conceivable reason is that TiVo cut a deal with the MSO’s to authorize HBO Go for TiVo in exchange for either delaying or halting HBO Now.

    A delay seems potentially plausible. A halt seems far less plausible. So I still expect HBO Now to hit at the same time, or soon after HBO Go. But who knows, of course.

  13. @DaveZ, thanks. I guess I could’ve tried it myself on my FTV since wit has both Go and Now. Maybe I will later tonight for Zatz and Giggles! :-)

  14. @Chucky — You seem to agree that developing an HBO Now app for TiVo wouldn’t require much additional time/resources beyond what’s already been sunk into the development of an HBO Go app. (Would be interesting to hear more on this point from anyone who knows more about the underlying tech of those two services.) Rather, you see the deciding factor as the political chess game between HBO, TiVo and the MSOs. I see your logic, although I’m not sure that big MSOs like Comcast, Charter, etc. are much worried about TiVo, given their tiny market share, or really care whether TiVo offers HBO Go or HBO Now. If they’re already authenticating HBO Go on Apple TV and Roku (both of which also offer HBO Now), the cat’s kind of already out of the bag, no?

  15. “I see your logic, although I’m not sure that big MSOs like Comcast, Charter, etc. are much worried about TiVo, given their tiny market share”

    You may well be correct. I’m really just guessing. My only two counters:

    – Input 1 is a something MSO’s really care about. Thus TiVo’s tiny retail market share doesn’t make MSO’s hate them any less. It’s about principle and precedent.

    – All MSO’s don’t authenticate all services on all devices. Lots of picking and choosing gets done. And the decisions seem to be motivated in many cases by strategic concerns.

  16. FYI, I tried authenticating HBOGo and it didn’t show any credentials to authenticate using my HBONow sub, as expected. Then I tried using my DirecTV account to authenticate it, even though I don’t sub to HBO on DTV, and it worked! I don’t know if maybe it’s because I use the same email for DTV and HBONow? I sub to both DirecTV and HBONow, so maybe it authenticated me that way, or maybe it’s just a glitch between Now and DTV? Either way I’m happy and ready to watch HBOGo when it arrives on TiVo!

    Maybe I’ll try cancelling the Now sub before it renews in March (I’m on the 30 day free trial) and see what happens.

  17. I’m just thrilled HBO GO (and HBO NOW, please?) is finally coming to TiVo. Given how the app has been supported on other devices, I don’t think we could expect every MSO to authenticate the app at launch on TiVo. Honestly, I’m surprised that Dish will authenticate it, given that TiVo is for use with cable and FiOS and cannot and never has been used with Dish.

    Chris, as for Time Warner, well, I’m betting they’ll soon be subsumed into Charter, which is authenticating the app on TiVo. As for Comcast, they didn’t initially authenticate the app when it came out on Roku or on Amazon Fire but eventually supported both. In the meantime, at least Comcast TiVo-users can access a lot of HBO content through TiVo’s Xfinity OnDemand app.

  18. Greenlight is on the list…. Not sure why I care, though, as I’m one of the few that doesn’t watch HBO shows (other than Curb when it was on). Never got into GoT or some of the other shows that are popular from that provider.

    That said, I’m always game to see TiVo improve their offerings, as it hopefully keeps them relevant for longer. I am holding out hope that we will see a TiVo for enthusiasts soon, as we were promised, but I’m also disappointed that they let CES pass without even a mention.

  19. Re: Comcast. That weird. Comcast was authorizing TiVo in that xml file Dave unearthed a couple of months back. I wonder what happened.

  20. In the Virginia suburbs of DC, as of 6:45AM, I didn’t have Skip Mode – my $1.6b didn’t go as far as I’d like, sorry.

  21. “my $1.6b didn’t go as far as I’d like, sorry.”

    The important thing is that you tried.

    But seriously, what’s going on with Comcast/HBO/TiVo? I read that damn xml file you unearthed myself. And TiVo was authorized on Comcast…

    @Tim: Y’see what I mean about the MSO’s gatekeeper power here yet?

  22. Supposedly forcing a connect will trigger the update. I think when I did that around 12:30AM but didn’t try again before I left for the office.

  23. what is strange is I have Cox in Phx however the login for cox clearly has a .east login and when I put my credentials it doesn’t recognize them… could cox be doing this on a regional roll out?

  24. “Supposedly forcing a connect will trigger the update.”

    Yup. Just worked for me. Wasn’t there, triggered update, and voila! Didn’t even need a restart. I’d be astonished if it doesn’t work for when you get home, Dave. (Alternately, you could just call your kid, and have her do the update.)

    My only Q: Why the hell isn’t the CBS Colbert Show talker included in SkipMode? TiVo’s guidelines seem to indicate it should be. Is it really just because the show ends at 12:37AM, and TiVo’s guidelines say SkipMode only works for shows on “major networks” up until 12:30AM? I really doubt they’d play that technicality, but who knows?

    So, my question for the hivemind who already have SkipMode is whether any of the broadcast network 11:35PM talkers get SkipMode, given they all end just a few minutes past that posted deadline?

    (Tim seems to have additional knowledge on what gets excluded from SkipMode, but if I recall properly, he said it was only news and sports. Hard to believe late nite talkers would fall into ‘news’. And FWIW, a recorded political debate on a news channel got SkipMode, so not all news…)

  25. @Tim: More evidence that the MSO’s really care about anything that might replace their Input 1 monopoly.

    “For Comcast customers try activating as a Samsung Smart TV, and se what happens.”

  26. I’ve got HBO GO this morning! Sweet! But no SkipMode here in Nashville yet. But it’s good to know TiVo is continuing the rollout. Wonder if anywhere other than NYC gets it today?

    Chucky, yes, late night talkers are supposed to be SkipModified:
    https://www.tivo.com/popup/skipmode-channels
    There have been lots of reports, though, about the feature not being consistently applied since it launched with Bolt. Also, maybe check your My Shows list in 24 hrs and see if any omitted shows are corrected.

    As for Comcast not allowing HBO GO on TiVo, yeah, maybe you’re right about input 1. But right now, it’s hard to say; Comcast has a history of not supporting the app when it first comes to a device (Roku, Fire TV), only to later allow it. Time will tell. Hopefully the Samsung Smart TV loophole continues to work. I’m guessing it and the TiVo app are both HTML5.

  27. “Chucky, yes, late night talkers are supposed to be SkipModified”

    Good. Good. I really was dubious that the ‘7 minute loophole’ would be the issue. I’ll check again in a day or two.

    “I’ve got HBO GO this morning! Sweet!”

    More good!

    “As for Comcast not allowing HBO GO on TiVo, yeah, maybe you’re right about input 1. But right now, it’s hard to say; Comcast has a history of not supporting the app when it first comes to a device (Roku, Fire TV), only to later allow it.”

    Quite true. But notice how that history doesn’t seem to apply to Smart TV’s. Still think Input 1 is really the key here. So only time will tell, but I remain dubious. (Unless, of course, pressure is applied to Comcast in some way, either by the FCC, or by an HBO Now rollout on TiVo. I think pleasing the FCC is the only reason TiVo has Comcast VOD, for example.)

    Still can’t wrap my mind around the meaning of the fact that that xml file indicates that HBO/TiVo did have Comcast approval, and now it doesn’t…

  28. Shafted by Comcast yet again. I was excited to see the HBO app at the bottom of my show-list this morning… only to be unable to activate it. (fyi… trying the recommendation from above to try activating as a Samsung Smart TV does not work for me.)

    And no skip-mode present either.

    sigh.

  29. From what I’m reading over at TCF, looks like SkipMode is so far only rolling out nationwide today to Roamio Pro model TiVos. Given that the SkipMode trial the past couple of months in the Chicago and SF areas were on all four Roamio models, and we’ve heard nothing about the possibility of SkipMode being restricted to just certain Roamios, I’m hopeful that we’ll see the feature soon on all Roamios. I had initially thought this morning that such a rollout was underway today but I guess it’s too soon to say. Maybe today just marks the second phase in the testing of this feature. If TiVo wanted to test SkipMode on a select group of Roamios nationwide, I guess Roamio Pros would make sense; there are probably fewer of them in the field than any of the other three models, given that they’re the most expensive.

  30. @Chucky I kind of thought Comcast VOD for TiVo was more about TiVo agreeing not to sue them etc.

    Also along the lines of input 1 comments per Hal Singer over at Forbes the FCC is not going to accomplish much (with price) by allowing 3rd party set-top box providers standardized equal access to content consumers have paid for.
    In fact per his article the FCC is using sketchy statistics unlike his ‘precise’ examples where he quotes top of the line TiVo models and no sale prices to Verizon set-top data form 2013 and vaguely alluding to Comcast HD technology fee but not including it in the comparison.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/halsinger/2016/02/15/before-it-unlocks-the-box-the-fcc-must-solve-this-pricing-puzzle/#40e420133778

  31. That article is flawed in many respects as is the editorial at the Boston Globe. I suspect cable’s lobbying branch is helping color the conversation…

  32. Thanks, Tim. I’m seeing now that somebody got word (via a Tivo tweet) that everyone should have skip-mode by February 24th. I’d still like to blame Comcast for this somehow.

  33. “I kind of thought Comcast VOD for TiVo was more about TiVo agreeing not to sue them etc.”

    You might be correct! I was just guessing, and if you guess “Evil MSO Acting Strategically” as the answer to a question, you’ll be right far more than you’ll be wrong.

    “That article is flawed in many respects as is the editorial at the Boston Globe. I suspect cable’s lobbying branch is helping color the conversation”

    NCTA lobbying and other influencing coloring the conversation? Perish the thought. What a conspiracy freak you are, Dave. (Disclaimer: my comment was sponsored by the NCTA.)

  34. If the topic wasn’t so esoteric and expansive, I’d love to respond… but it’s not the best use of my very limited free time. :/ Besides, I’d be preaching to the choir here — we’re consumer-focused and largely have a more sophisticated understanding of the situation than the general public.

  35. “From what I’m reading over at TCF, looks like SkipMode is so far only rolling out nationwide today to Roamio Pro model TiVos.”

    I do have a Pro. (And SkipMode today). TiVo offered me an weird upgrade deal over the phone that heavily discounted the Pro, and not the Plus. So it worked out that getting the Pro only cost me $25 over getting the Plus and doing the DIY with the ‘correct’ HD. Seemed well worth it to avoid the two week upgrade delay I’ve previously observed to avoid any return hassles.

    But I’m enough of a geek that I ended up opening the box anyway just to look around…

    (I tell you all this cuz I gotta keep up my street cred around you folks. But, regardless, it is true.)

  36. FWIW (possibly quite little), I’m reading that a Comcast chat rep told someone today that HBO GO via Comcast on TiVo is currently being tested — “available soon”. (Until proven otherwise, though, blaming Comcast under the Evil MSO theory works for me.)

    And Chucky, I figured you were a Roamio Pro kinda guy. Street cred.

  37. “And Chucky, I figured you were a Roamio Pro kinda guy. Street cred.”

    Joke all you like, kind sir. But not only did I do the elaborate dance to upgrade to a 1TB drive in my S3, but then I went the full monty to put a 2TB drive into the same box.

    Also, upgraded a 2nd time today, and not only found myself with HBO Go, but also, the overwhelming people’s choice, WWE. The weird thing is that with both the SkipMode upgrade and the HBO Go upgrade, I got no messages on the box from TiVo telling me all about it. Not the normal.

  38. Just got home from work – Roamio Plus with 3TB upgrade, no SkipMode at this time. I do have HBOGO after another connect and coming/going from various menus, but selecting Samsung Smart TV doesn’t work for Comcast.

  39. HBO, schmHBO. The real question is, do you have the new ToonGoggles app, Dave? (On second thought, now that you have a little one, maybe you actually care about it.)

    Sucks about Comcast and HBO GO. Perhaps you have a close friend or family member who subs to HBO via DISH, Verizon, Charter, etc? (I mean, as long as you’re both paying for HBO, I don’t see how it’s unethical.)

  40. I’m personally on Verizon – was just confirming for the crowd that Comcast doesn’t work. :) WWE and ToonGoogles are there as well, not sure if the Hulu app has been updated. May be awhile before I put HBO GO to use – we just started S2 of The Affair on Showtime and Netflix’s Daredevil S2 arrives in about a week.

    I wonder if TiVo did or will brief the press and pony up the trivial $500 for a press release to cover the new apps and SkipMode. I get they’d let HBO drive communication on that particular app, but ~after~ as part of a larger story how the platform keeps evolving. (For comparison, they probably invested tens of thousands on that movie theater stunt that no one heard about and likely drove no sales worth mentioning.)

  41. “May be awhile before I put HBO GO to use”

    Have you seen Luck yet? Not only is it great, (I know you’re a Deadwood fan), but David Milch could use the residuals

    (John from Cincinnati is pretty great too, and wildly underrated / overlooked.)

    Plus movies & docs too. I’ll let you discover the docs for yourself.

    But on the movie side:

    25th Hour
    Miller’s Crossing
    Dirty War
    Warm Springs
    The Seven-Per-Cent Solution
    A whole bunch of Woody Allen

    My thumbs are worn out from One-Passing all of it…

  42. Ooh, I loved S2 of The Affair. Thought it was even better than S1. Just got sucked into 11.22.63 on Hulu this week. (Grrr, still no updated Hulu app on my Roamio either — perhaps it’s dependent on the upcoming 20.5.9 software update?) But ready to get back to HBO for the new seasons of Girls and Togetherness. (Not sure about new series Vinyl. Maybe I’ll sample it.)

  43. “I wonder if TiVo did or will brief the press and pony up the trivial $500 for a press release to cover the new apps and SkipMode.”

    Maybe it’s a soft rollout until they’re sure it all works?

    – For SkipMode, wait until 2/24 when it hits all S5 boxes?

    – For apps, dunno, but have thoughts. If they think they have a firm date from Comcast, maybe wait on them? If they don’t think they have a firm date from Comcast, maybe very soon?

  44. I had skip mode activated last night on my Roamio Pro. Didn’t check HBOGo (with Comcast) because I didn’t know it was supposed to be available. Will need to check that, as well as whether SkipMode is available on my Minis that connect to the Roamio.

  45. “Didn’t check HBOGo (with Comcast) because I didn’t know it was supposed to be available. Will need to check that”

    We have some bad news for you. We sent your dog to a farm upstate where it’ll be happier…

    “as well as whether SkipMode is available on my Minis that connect to the Roamio.”

    Good news for you! TiVo sez if it’s enabled on the Roamio, it’ll be enabled on the Bolt.

  46. Serious question here for folks with cable but using HBO now instead of subscribing through your cable co. Why? Is it more expensive than a separate sub? In my region HBO was $1 a month cheaper through Verizon than HBO now direct and I don’t have to use a separate app unless I want to.

  47. I’m also on Verizon and they often discount HBO by 50%, putting it on par with HBO NOW – give or take that dollar you mention. However, Verizon has also messed up my billing on a number of occasions with account changes (including an undisclosed contract extension once) and their online service change tool doesn’t always work for me – so I’d probably choose HBO NOW the next time I make a change, assuming a simpler process.

  48. I’ve been fairly lucky on the billing front with Verizon. I have only ever had issues with them not removing cable cards from my account after being returned (every time) but they always credit me back without issue and get it resolved ASAP. I also don’t change my plan around a lot until it comes time to renew. My current renewal got me HBO free for 12 mo. at which point I will probably cancel as there is very little I watch on the channel anymore. Was just curious about peoples motivation to go direct vs through provider.

  49. people i know have the same bill problems constantly with Verizon fios
    and i did too when i had them.

    ps i got my skipmode, thanks dave

  50. By the by, I also have a Comcast line to the house. Been thinking about firing that up for reasons I can’t explain. Maybe I’ll inquire with the PR group and see if they want to hook me up to keep an eye on X1. Hm. :)

  51. “people i know have the same bill problems constantly with Verizon fios
    and i did too when i had them.”

    Yup. They’re notably atrocious. I get my deal’s precise details in writing via email when I negotiate a contract over the phone, never change anything online, keep a close eye on each month’s bill, and call when they overcharge. That works, but it’s a hassle.

    If I didn’t like the service more than the competitor’s, I’d stop doing business with them.

  52. “Mike February 18, 2016 at 12:42 pm
    Serious question here for folks with cable but using HBO now instead of subscribing through your cable co. Why? Is it more expensive than a separate sub? In my region HBO was $1 a month cheaper through Verizon than HBO now direct and I don’t have to use a separate app unless I want to.”

    @Mike,
    In my region, Oceanic Time Warner, it is $16.95/month for HBO, but HBONow is only $14.95/month. That’s neither here nor there though, because I only subscribed to it during the 30 Day Free Initial Trial to play with it to see if I could authenticate HBOGo on TiVo and also to watch Mad Max with my son since it wasn’t available to rent/stream anywhere else like Vudu, Amazon, etc. I was going to cancel at the 30 day mark, but my wife is interested in maybe watching Game of Thrones, so may keep it longer to catch up on that and see if we like it.

    Also, HBO and many other so called “HD” channels on Oceanic TWC simply suck picture quality wise and I get a better image using streaming services actually.

  53. Also, HBO and many other so called “HD” channels on Oceanic TWC simply suck picture quality wise and I get a better image using streaming services actually.

    Yeah, I’ve found that, generally speaking, the 1080p streams from Amazon, Netflix and Vudu all look better than what you typically get on a linear HD channel from cable or satellite. (That said, I’ve never seen HD from Google Fiber or Verizon FiOS, which reputedly have the best and second-best HD PQ, respectively.) I haven’t yet tried HBO NOW but having used HBO GO on a few devices, its HD PQ doesn’t look as good to me as does Amazon, Netflix, Vudu or linear HBO from DirecTV (regarded by many as #3 in HD PQ behind Google and FiOS.

  54. “Yeah, I’ve found that, generally speaking, the 1080p streams from Amazon, Netflix and Vudu all look better than what you typically get on a linear HD channel from cable or satellite. (That said, I’ve never seen HD from Google Fiber or Verizon FiOS, which reputedly have the best and second-best HD PQ, respectively.)”

    See, that’s why I put up with FIOS billing hassles. PQ (on the multicast channels that serve up a decent bit-rate) is better than any 1080 OTT service I’ve encountered.

    And FWIW, I don’t understand technically how either Google or FIOS could have “better” PQ than the other. They’re both serving up the uncompressed feed from the main satellite over FTTH, no? Shouldn’t they essentially be identical?

  55. I just turned on my TiVo Mini and I see HBO Go! Unfortunately I don’t subscribe to HBO so I can’t try it out!

  56. See, that’s why I put up with FIOS billing hassles. PQ (on the multicast channels that serve up a decent bit-rate) is better than any 1080 OTT service I’ve encountered.

    And FWIW, I don’t understand technically how either Google or FIOS could have “better” PQ than the other. They’re both serving up the uncompressed feed from the main satellite over FTTH, no? Shouldn’t they essentially be identical?

    This is more than you want to know probably, but here goes…

    My understanding is that in some cases FiOS is now applying additional compression in order to cram more channels per QAM; that was not the case in the early days of FiOS. And most cable channels now originate from the network on C-band satellite encoded in MPEG4 (h.264). My understanding is that Google Fiber just passes those on untouched to customers, as their set-tops can decode MPEG4 (and probably MPEG2 as well). But except for a few more obscure channels, FiOS is taking those MPEG4 feeds and recompressing them on the fly in real time into MPEG2, because so many of their legacy set-tops in the field cannot decode MPEG4. Now, it’s possible there’s zero loss in PQ when FiOS recompresses but I’m betting there’s at least a bit.

    As for linear versus streaming, honestly, it’s going to depend on which channel vs. which service you’re talking about. HBO and Showtime both beam out their main HD channels to MSOs over C-band using a constant bitrate of 8 Mbps for 1080i60 video (including audio and overhead) in MPEG 4 (or so I’ve read). http://www.cedmagazine.com/article/2007/07/mpeg-transition

    Now if I subscribe to Showtime as a streaming add-on in Amazon Video, I’m getting their shows in 1080p24 (except for a few in 1080p30) in MPEG4 at a bitrate of about 10 Mbps. 1080i60 video has equivalent bandwidth needs as 1080p30; both require 25% more bandwidth than 1080p24 because, well 30 vs. 24 frames per second. (Most everything that Showtime airs is natively done in 24 fps; sports and some docu-series are in 30 fps.) So in addition to the benefit of viewing at the native frame rate when streaming with Amazon (i.e. no telecine-induced judder), you also get the efficiency of the lower frame rate, which needs less bandwidth to look equivalently good — so for Amazon’s stream to look only as good as the original linear Showtime channel on the C-band, it should only need a total bitrate of 6.4 Mbps. But instead, Amazon is throwing a whopping 10 Mbps (approximately) at it. Which (assuming Amazon and Showtime are both using equivalently capable MPEG4 encoders on the source material) should result in a much better looking picture from Amazon. Like more than 50% better. And then there’s the question of whether Amazon’s encoding is actually more efficient, because it’s done ahead of time to simply prepare files for on-demand streaming, likely with multi-pass encoding. With live linear channels, though, I’m not sure if that content gets the benefit of multi-pass encoding or if it’s simply encoded single-pass in real time; that surely must be the case with live events, such as sports, but I don’t know about recorded content like series and films. I just don’t know enough about the video transmission workflow inside a TV network to say.

    But, end point, when I stream Ray Donovan through my Showtime subscription in Amazon Video, it looks way better — sharper, less color banding, less blockiness in shadowy areas and fast action scenes — than it did on the live Showtime channel from any TV provider I’ve ever had. So, in this particular case, streaming beats linear.

  57. “This is more than you want to know probably, but here goesâ€Ĥ”

    Don’t you know me by now, Tim? I adore this kind of stuff. Thank you, sir.

  58. Tim, does Showtime on Amazon have Dolby 5.1? I have Showtime added to my Hulu subscription and I don’t think I get it.

  59. @Tim I recall getting a letter from Verizon about 3 years ago, saying some channels would no longer be available unless i swapped out my Verizon box. It makes me wonder if they do perform that conversion in all markets or maybe they did in the beginning but no more?

    As I recall the PQ was better then my current Comcast connection
    Almost brighter if you will, but maybe that’s really a clarity thing from compression
    What notice with my current connection Comcast connection is occasionally on the ‘lesser’ channels my sound intermittently drops for like half a second, especially on bad days.
    I would have gone back to Verizon already but they do not support VOD for TiVo.

    I do know when I got my connection setup from Comcast the installer said the signal from the pole to my house was not that great but I would not need it because I was not getting the X1 platform. The whole install was a nightmare (long story).

  60. You’re quite welcome, Chucky. And as an HBO fan, I doubt you can do any better PQ-wise than what you’re currently getting with FiOS. Again, while I’ve read that FiOS is applying additional compression to some channels due to bandwidth constraints, that’s not the case with the main HBO and Cinemax channels. (Not sure about Showtime; seem to recall that they’re somehow botching that channel a bit maybe.) Perhaps linear HBO looks a little better on Google Fiber since they’re not having to re-encode from MPEG4 to MPEG2 like FiOS must do, but it’s probably not a big difference.

    And as for streaming HBO, well, I can’t find any reference online as to the maximum bitrate used for 1080p for either HBO GO or HBO NOW but my eyes (better than 20/20 with glasses!) tell me that HBO GO (on any device I’ve tried) does not look nearly as good as 1080p from Amazon or Netflix. I’d say HBO GO doesn’t look as good as linear HBO on DirecTV (hard to say without them side-by-side though) and the interweb’s consensus is that FiOS HD generally looks a little better than DirecTV. I’ve yet to try HBO NOW; I’ve read it may look slightly better than HBO GO but still falls short of Amazon and Netflix.
    http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?subaction=showfull&id=1428483242

  61. Tim, does Showtime on Amazon have Dolby 5.1? I have Showtime added to my Hulu subscription and I don’t think I get it.

    Yessireebob. I actually switched my Showtime subscription over to Hulu recently to take advantage of a free month but will switch back to Amazon. Hulu maxes out at 720p video and stereo audio, regardless of device. If you’re already an Amazon Prime member, you may as well switch your Showtime add-on over to Amazon for the same price ($9/mo.) and enjoy that sweet surround sound and excellent 1080p video quality. (I think Bluray is the only HD I’ve seen that beats it.) Although, in order to get 1080p from Amazon, you should have an internet connection of at least 15 Mbps or faster, with nothing else sucking down bandwidth while you’re streaming.

  62. I recall getting a letter from Verizon about 3 years ago, saying some channels would no longer be available unless i swapped out my Verizon box. It makes me wonder if they do perform that conversion in all markets or maybe they did in the beginning but no more?

    Yeah, that’s the whole MPEG2 vs. MPEG4 thing. FiOS started out transmitting all channels encoded in MPEG2, so that’s all their set-top boxes could decode. Then a few years ago, as they continued to add more HD channels, they decided to begin transmitting some less popular channels — stuff like Bloomberg HD, Pivot HD, Fox Sports 2 HD — in the more efficient MPEG4 in order to save some bandwidth. So if customers wanted access to those specific channels, they had to swap out their STB for a newer one that could decode both MPEG2 and MPEG4. As far as I know, this was done in all FiOS markets. At some point in the future, when a large percentage of the STBs already in use can handle MPEG4, perhaps Verizon will decide to switch everything over to MPEG4, forcing those remaining customers with old STBs to swap. Who knows. It’s a big expense to change out all that hardware.

    As for your Comcast woes, MarkV, your HD channels are almost certainly more compressed than was the case with FiOS, giving you a less sharp, less vibrant, more pixelated picture. No idea what’s causing your sound drop-outs. Try swapping out your STB and/or have a tech come out and test your line. Good luck!

  63. FIOS also required a cable card swap out as a result of the transition they did a few years back. I didn’t get a letter just found out during a free HBO weekend. I had to swap mine out twice before it would work. This also resulted in my billing getting charge for two cable cards I sent back. Still better then Comcast.

  64. MarkV: There was no written agreement between Comcast and TiVo that TiVo would not sue, as there was with DirecTV because they agreed to develop the current THR-22. It was the only written agreement regarding not suing for patent violations, and DirecTV demanded that clause.

    Instead it was Tom Rogers own spoken policy I recall from reading an interview with him in which he had eluded that several MVPD’s had not returned any of TiVo’s calls/reaching out/feelers/letters/out right personal telephone calls–whatever you want to call them–about developing a TiVo box with them or using TiVo software, or in some other way, get TiVo in their systems and make TiVo some money, after he had served Echostar/Dish with the infamous lawsuit (Dish had the greatest number of DVR’s out there at the time). It seemed the interviewer was pressing ol’ Tom on how he was determining who specifically were also violating the patents, to which Rogers was quoted. finally, possibly reluctant, as saying, “. . . if they talk with us, we’ll work with them, but if they won’t talk to us, then we’ll sue.” The old lawsuit as leverage game, not about who was truly violating patents.

    Comcast took the “yeah, TiVo, let’s talk. Maybe we can do something together,” road and Comcast completely avoided TiVo’s lawyers for all the time it needed. However, I wonder if it would have been cheaper to just pay TiVo its “get lost” money, as most of the others had.

    Check the list of MVPD’s and set-top-box manufactures TiVo sued; none of them had anything to say to TiVo when TiVo mascot came a knockin’

    So, Comcast was one of the few who decided to “talk” to TiVo, and

  65. I have Roamios, and would not pay one penny extra for Skip Mode. I hope I get it, and I may use it, but it is not such a feature that warrants extra value added pricing. That would be the WRONG thing to do, business wise, for TiVo. It needs to make friends, not create negative press and bashing and re-posted hate rants of TiVo.

    Further, that move will not save the retail end. It really is if TiVo can get NEW subscribers, not about squeezing more from those who have been loyal, particularly those who choose to stay with instead of leave TiVo, as too many have left.

    While I appreciate that such talk is still just rumor, I still would that TiVo just give us those features promised at no additional charge. MyS3’s no longer accessible via on-line is still a very sour aftertaste in my mouth. I have forgiven them for no YouTube or Amazon support on the S3’s understanding the tech and money needed to make that work. I’ve not forgiven the lack of on-line access for the S3’s.

  66. I have to say that I don’t use HBO Now that much, as I have had only one Apple TV device connected. Will have to see how quality compares of ATV stream vs TiVo, but at first glance, HBO Now stream is visibly worse than either VUDU or Netflix streaming on TiVo.

    Still, very happy to have.

  67. FWIW, I was able to finally authenticate HBOgo using my Time Warner Cable account. Looks like all those complaints/letters to the FCC and TWC brass finally paid off! Can’t wait to start streaming HBOgo on the TiVo!

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