16 thoughts on “Jury punishes Cox for tying premium cable services to set-top rentals”
Wait doesn’t every Cable system do this?
This one’s just too hard to write up… so many interesting angles here. FCC says cable can protect everything but the locals. Which means you need something to authenticate. Enter a rented cable box or a CableCARD for use with TiVo, HDHomeRun Prime, or whatever other devices still exist. On the other hand, we know getting sufficient CableCARD support and accurate information out of cable providers has often been a challenge. Indeed, as a Cox customer, they could never figure out tuning issues in regards to my TiVo with their CableCARD and SDV tuning adapter. I was fortunate enough to have a choice and switched to Verizon. Not everyone is so lucky. But another argument in Cox’s favor, watch HBO GO on Roku or similar?
Class action, legal firms make money, corporations lose money and the so called winners hardly see any money. I just wish these court clogging cases would be thrown out once and for all.
This could be a really big deal for anyone who watches TV. Sometimes it isn’t about the money awarded, as much as it is about making it risky for companies to do the wrong thing. More cases like this could be what it takes to really get the providers motivated to open up their content to more devices. I’ve always wondered why tying a cable box rental to content, and even worse, an essential service like news and emergency services wasn’t an anti-trust issue.
Time Warner makes me rent a cable box even though I have a TiVo Roamio with one of their cable cards and a tuning adapter. Maybe this will change that. I pay $12 a month for it to sit in the closet unused but they claim that if I return it, my package will be void and I’ll owe them an extra $75/mo.
Ben, one of our regulars thought that should have been an argument for Aereo’s continued existence – that it serves the public good to retransmit federally licensed spectrum, which included things like emergency alerts that not everyone can receive via antenna.
Tom, yeah ‘bundles’ lead to some weird things like that. I’m stuck on a bad tier of Verizon channels and can’t move in any direction (even fewer channels) without increasing my bill.
“Class action, legal firms make money, corporations lose money and the so called winners hardly see any money. I just wish these court clogging cases would be thrown out once and for all.”
Ugh. A pure corrupt corporate shill argument. Class actions are the onlynormal means for consumers to fight back against this kind of thing. Which is why the NYT just did an amazingly admirable series on successful corrupt corporate efforts to eliminate class actions in order to better rip off consumers.
(Plus, if you actually bother to read the article, this wasn’t a class action at all. Instead it was a good old-fashioned anti-trust suit, which I’m sure you’re a shill against too. For reasons that demonstrate how unfairly difficult it is to bring a class action these days, this suit wasn’t able to proceed along the traditional class action path that consumers used to be able to use to hold corrupt corporate actions like these to account.)
What I find interesting is that there’s no actual coverage anywhere of the specific argument used. This appears to be the Bell telephone system and Bell instruments argument all over again – Bell first tied instruments to their network design and refused others any connection, then made it difficult to buy and connect and went to a lot of length to make it difficult to find out that you could. And of course, you were charged rental on those instruments as a condition of use. From my perspective, as a matter of law, the law is not on Cox’s side.
Moreover, the problem with the “no local encryption” is that it’s unenforced. The reason we finally cut the cable was because our local FiOS franchise here in NoVA signed a contract with NBC that requires encryption of certain flagship programs, like SVU and Meet the Press. When I pointed out that the FCC specifically prohibited this, they basically said, why don’t you just take a one-time $5 credit for your trouble. Alas for them, I got a $85 credit monthly by cutting the cord.
I can’t wait for the Volkswagen class action. That should be epic.
Varun, did you see anyone else with similar in DSL Forums or other? That’s a real weird one, would like to read more about it.
(I’m on contract thru 12/16 – my rate for a certain amount of basic cable is the same as 50/50 broadband, so I’m not motivated to cut the cord. And, actually, I’d like to change up my line up. But adding *or reducing* channels results in a higher monthly fee. Which means we’ll do nothing.)
This needs to apply to other video providers as well.
The telco at our cabin in the mountains finally finished its fiber roll-out & offers IP-based “cable” boxes & DVRs.
But they charge $10/month for a DVR I can buy for around $120.
No “pairing” or tuning adapter required – were the telco forced to let me own the equipment all I would need to do is provide them the serial number & the box would be authorized.
Me: “So if I have a deal to sell crack cocaine to someone, I’m can’t be prosecuted for possession?”
Chris: “No that is illegal”
Me: “And so is encrypting local channels, and yet here we are.”
Me: “Just because you’re not familiar with the law doesn’t mean it’s not the law.”
Me: “And thus your contract doesn’t take precedence over the law.”
As to switching, my guess is you are, like we were, on the legacy FiOS Extreme HD. That was really a great selection of channels, but they basically started dicking us over by adding cost of programming into the taxes and fees section, and raising the rate we were supposedly locked into for 2-years by about $1.50/month for 24 straight months … this is what that looks like: https://twitter.com/vnangia/status/540606749292888064?lang=en
No not really. But when there is real crime out there and people are getting killed, that should be the focus of justice,not that these first world problems.
Varun, not sure what my plan is called, but it only existed for a short while. I dropped down to a tier that had BBCA but didn’t have ESPN. There were a few other sacrifices too. We’d undo it all, but the plans and fees don’t make much sense these days.
Regarding the copy protection, given what you describe, I think those particular shows were accidentally flagged. We’d have heard more about it on the forums otherwise and we do sometimes see certain local programmed protected – but it’s due to operator error. I wouldn’t put much stock in a first line support agent’s knowledge of a situation.
It’s wasn’t accidental. We escalated to the point we had a regional manager call us back and explain that he was very sorry, but that NBC was sending the feed to them with the bit flagged in there for specific flagship shows – including Meet the Press, SVU, SNL, and F1 races amongst a few other things. Given that that basically covered everything we did watch on NBC and that the OTA version didn’t have that issue, it was a no-brainer to cancel. For us, it was probably the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Wait doesn’t every Cable system do this?
This one’s just too hard to write up… so many interesting angles here. FCC says cable can protect everything but the locals. Which means you need something to authenticate. Enter a rented cable box or a CableCARD for use with TiVo, HDHomeRun Prime, or whatever other devices still exist. On the other hand, we know getting sufficient CableCARD support and accurate information out of cable providers has often been a challenge. Indeed, as a Cox customer, they could never figure out tuning issues in regards to my TiVo with their CableCARD and SDV tuning adapter. I was fortunate enough to have a choice and switched to Verizon. Not everyone is so lucky. But another argument in Cox’s favor, watch HBO GO on Roku or similar?
Class action, legal firms make money, corporations lose money and the so called winners hardly see any money. I just wish these court clogging cases would be thrown out once and for all.
This could be a really big deal for anyone who watches TV. Sometimes it isn’t about the money awarded, as much as it is about making it risky for companies to do the wrong thing. More cases like this could be what it takes to really get the providers motivated to open up their content to more devices. I’ve always wondered why tying a cable box rental to content, and even worse, an essential service like news and emergency services wasn’t an anti-trust issue.
Time Warner makes me rent a cable box even though I have a TiVo Roamio with one of their cable cards and a tuning adapter. Maybe this will change that. I pay $12 a month for it to sit in the closet unused but they claim that if I return it, my package will be void and I’ll owe them an extra $75/mo.
Ben, one of our regulars thought that should have been an argument for Aereo’s continued existence – that it serves the public good to retransmit federally licensed spectrum, which included things like emergency alerts that not everyone can receive via antenna.
Tom, yeah ‘bundles’ lead to some weird things like that. I’m stuck on a bad tier of Verizon channels and can’t move in any direction (even fewer channels) without increasing my bill.
“Class action, legal firms make money, corporations lose money and the so called winners hardly see any money. I just wish these court clogging cases would be thrown out once and for all.”
Ugh. A pure corrupt corporate shill argument. Class actions are the only normal means for consumers to fight back against this kind of thing. Which is why the NYT just did an amazingly admirable series on successful corrupt corporate efforts to eliminate class actions in order to better rip off consumers.
(Plus, if you actually bother to read the article, this wasn’t a class action at all. Instead it was a good old-fashioned anti-trust suit, which I’m sure you’re a shill against too. For reasons that demonstrate how unfairly difficult it is to bring a class action these days, this suit wasn’t able to proceed along the traditional class action path that consumers used to be able to use to hold corrupt corporate actions like these to account.)
What I find interesting is that there’s no actual coverage anywhere of the specific argument used. This appears to be the Bell telephone system and Bell instruments argument all over again – Bell first tied instruments to their network design and refused others any connection, then made it difficult to buy and connect and went to a lot of length to make it difficult to find out that you could. And of course, you were charged rental on those instruments as a condition of use. From my perspective, as a matter of law, the law is not on Cox’s side.
Moreover, the problem with the “no local encryption” is that it’s unenforced. The reason we finally cut the cable was because our local FiOS franchise here in NoVA signed a contract with NBC that requires encryption of certain flagship programs, like SVU and Meet the Press. When I pointed out that the FCC specifically prohibited this, they basically said, why don’t you just take a one-time $5 credit for your trouble. Alas for them, I got a $85 credit monthly by cutting the cord.
I can’t wait for the Volkswagen class action. That should be epic.
Varun, did you see anyone else with similar in DSL Forums or other? That’s a real weird one, would like to read more about it.
(I’m on contract thru 12/16 – my rate for a certain amount of basic cable is the same as 50/50 broadband, so I’m not motivated to cut the cord. And, actually, I’d like to change up my line up. But adding *or reducing* channels results in a higher monthly fee. Which means we’ll do nothing.)
This needs to apply to other video providers as well.
The telco at our cabin in the mountains finally finished its fiber roll-out & offers IP-based “cable” boxes & DVRs.
But they charge $10/month for a DVR I can buy for around $120.
No “pairing” or tuning adapter required – were the telco forced to let me own the equipment all I would need to do is provide them the serial number & the box would be authorized.
Easy come, easy go… ;)
http://www.cablefax.com/regulation/judge-throws-cox-set-top-box-verdict
It did seem to be too good to be true. MJR must be damn happy…
Somehow I missed your comment. Sorry.
Yep, I wasn’t the only one: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30027035-CCI-copy-protection-issues-recording-NBC-programs! When I contacted them, the agent, “Chris”, claimed that it was contractual and that they were not obliged to follow law because their contract took precedence, resulting in this priceless exchange:
Me: “So if I have a deal to sell crack cocaine to someone, I’m can’t be prosecuted for possession?”
Chris: “No that is illegal”
Me: “And so is encrypting local channels, and yet here we are.”
Me: “Just because you’re not familiar with the law doesn’t mean it’s not the law.”
Me: “And thus your contract doesn’t take precedence over the law.”
As to switching, my guess is you are, like we were, on the legacy FiOS Extreme HD. That was really a great selection of channels, but they basically started dicking us over by adding cost of programming into the taxes and fees section, and raising the rate we were supposedly locked into for 2-years by about $1.50/month for 24 straight months … this is what that looks like: https://twitter.com/vnangia/status/540606749292888064?lang=en
No not really. But when there is real crime out there and people are getting killed, that should be the focus of justice,not that these first world problems.
Varun, not sure what my plan is called, but it only existed for a short while. I dropped down to a tier that had BBCA but didn’t have ESPN. There were a few other sacrifices too. We’d undo it all, but the plans and fees don’t make much sense these days.
Regarding the copy protection, given what you describe, I think those particular shows were accidentally flagged. We’d have heard more about it on the forums otherwise and we do sometimes see certain local programmed protected – but it’s due to operator error. I wouldn’t put much stock in a first line support agent’s knowledge of a situation.
It’s wasn’t accidental. We escalated to the point we had a regional manager call us back and explain that he was very sorry, but that NBC was sending the feed to them with the bit flagged in there for specific flagship shows – including Meet the Press, SVU, SNL, and F1 races amongst a few other things. Given that that basically covered everything we did watch on NBC and that the OTA version didn’t have that issue, it was a no-brainer to cancel. For us, it was probably the straw that broke the camel’s back.